Philip Blumel: Whoa, did you hear that? The last time term limits came up in a Presidential debate was when George Bush, Bill Clinton, and Ross Perot faced off back in 1992. But, last week, three Presidential hopefuls brought up the issue in the fourth Democratic Presidential debate.
Philip Blumel: Hi, I’m Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the term limits movement for the week of October 21st, 2019.
Speaker 2: Your sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: US Term Limits Executive Director Nick Tomboulides watched the three hour debate, and he’s with us again this week.
Philip Blumel: Hey, Nick. How’s it going?
Nick Tomboulides: Howdy, sir. I’m doing very well.
Philip Blumel: Good. Is it true that you watched all three hours of that debate?
Nick Tomboulides: I did. I’m the type of self-loathing person who does that. I did it in the service to the term limits movement, because I was waiting to see if the words term limits would finally across the lips of any of these 12 Presidential candidates. Yes, it finally happened.
Philip Blumel: They did. Yeah, that was exciting! First time since 92. If it came up in one of the primary debates earlier on, then it slipped by us. Hopefully a listener will let us know. But, yeah, I think it’s the first time since 1992 since it’s come up in the Presidential debate, so that’s pretty exciting. It came up more than once?
Nick Tomboulides: Yes. So, I did some quick little napkin math here, like some Jack Kemp art napkin math. Prior to Tuesday night, there had been 15 hours of Democratic Presidential debates in 2019. 15 hours, 900 minutes, 54000 seconds. In that time, there had not been a single mention of term limits. As you said, it had not been mentioned in the debate since 1992, even longer. But, in this cycle, it’s a really popular issue right now, it’s a hot issue. Candidates talk about it all the time. Evidently, not in the primary.
Nick Tomboulides: There were 297 questions about other topics. Healthcare, gun control, wealth taxes, Ellen DeGeneres, but nothing about term limits. There still hasn’t been a term limits question. It only got into the debate because Tom Steyer injected it into a discussion about opioids.
Philip Blumel: Right. Well, let’s hear the clip right now.
Tom Steyer: The reason I’m running for President is that we have a broken government. We have a broken government because corporations have bought it. Every single one of these conversations is about that broken government. We need to break the corporate stranglehold on our government. I’ve put forward actual structural changes, including term limits, a National referendum, the end to the idea that corporations are people, and have the rights of American citizens politically, and make it a lot easier to vote.
Philip Blumel: Well, that’s great. It was short and sweet, and there was no rejoinder. No one else engaged the issue when he brought it up. Nonetheless, I give Tom Steyer an A+ for bringing it up, and for being the first one in decades. I’m excited about that. He’s going to keep doing it.
Philip Blumel: I noticed that prior to him being in the debate, and particularly in an interview I saw on Bloomberg TV, the very first issue he brought up was Congressional term limits.
Nick Tomboulides: I get emails from politicians all the time, promising me, you know, The Nile. In this case, I got an email from Tom Steyer that said, “If I get on the debate stage, I’m actually going to talk about term limits, I’m going to mention term limits.” He kept his word, and he did it in a very smart way. He correctly noted that Congress is in the pocket of Big Pharma, because Big Pharma spends hundreds of millions of dollars on lobbying campaigns to keep their favorite politicians in office. So, his case was, the real problem in our country is not the specific issues that we’ve been debating for 15 hours, it’s corruption. If you fix corruption, then you get the politicians listening again. It was a very artful way, how we brought it up.
Nick Tomboulides: What it reminded me of was that Princeton study that had been done a few years ago, where they found if the American people support a particular policy, the odds of Congress enacting it are 40%. If the American people oppose a particular policy, the odds of Congress enacting it are 40%. So, the opinions of the public have a near zero impact on public policy decisions. Legislators are listening to the funders, it’s a systematic corruption.
Nick Tomboulides: When you talk about the opioids, the funders are the big pharmaceutical companies, obviously. So, it’s a dependency. The votes are exchanged for permanent incumbency. Term limits would break that cycle. I think Steyer deserves great credit for pointing that out, and for connecting a hot button issue like opioids to term limits, because they’re inextricably linked. I think every issue is linked with the idea of politicians being too corrupt.
Philip Blumel: Absolutely.
Philip Blumel: Well, after Tom Steyer, the runner-ups are Pete Buttigieg and Julian Castro, who both also brought up term limits, although not Congressional term limits, they brought up Supreme Court term limits. I still want to give them kudos for that.
Speaker 5: This is a public service announcement.
Stacey Selleck: Every wonder why Senators seem to get wealthier and wealthier once they get into office? Not only are they far more affluent than most of their constituents, they have the ability to legislate money into their own pockets through policy making.
Stacey Selleck: In a September 19th article in The Guardian, according to Sludge, an investigative news website focused on money and politics, “Analysis of financial disclosure data shows 51 Senators and their spouses have as much as $96 million invested in corporate stocks.”
Stacey Selleck: US Lawmakers face glaring conflicts of interest setting policy for companies they are supposed to regulate. Although not illegal, the perception is that it’s a conflict of interest for lawmakers and their spouse to own stock in a company for which they legislate. Human nature dictates that it is impossible to be impartial on issues affecting your own personal wealth. Most of the stocks owned by the 51 Senators are in five key sectors. Communications electronics, defense, energy and natural resources, finance, insurance, and real estate, and health.
Stacey Selleck: According to last week’s investigative report, 10 members of the Senate Banking Committee own a total of as much as $8 million in stock in companies in the finance, securities, and real estate sector. Other Senators on the Housing and Urban Affairs Committee have millions vested in real estate. The median net worth of a Senator is approximately $3.2 million. According to Market Watch, the median net worth of the average US household is $97300.
Stacey Selleck: US Lawmakers are disproportionately wealthier than their constituents, and growing wealthier. This inequity makes it impossible for members of the Senate to have any empathy in the average American experience. It’s no wonder Americans overwhelmingly disapprove of Congress, and don’t believe the representatives share in their priorities.
Speaker 6: At US Term Limits, we believe the best anti-corruption measure is to divest Congress members from controlling policy for their own purses by removing them from their posts regularly, with term limits.
Philip Blumel: Right at deadline last week, we got the news of the results from the Louisiana State Legislative primary elections.
Nick Tomboulides: Yes. Louisiana had a primary for it’s state legislators last Saturday. We were super active doing voter education. Just want to give folks some background.
Philip Blumel: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nick Tomboulides: We put major resources in. We sent out voter guides to a large number of districts, letting people know who signed the US Term Limits pledge, which ones have refused. Of course, it’s a pledge asking Legislators to back a convention for term limits on Congress.
Nick Tomboulides: The way the primary works in Louisiana is interesting. It’s not a closed primary, like here in Florida where only Republicans can vote for Republicans, and vice versa. It’s totally open to anyone. It’s one election in the primary, it’s totally open. It’s a mad scramble. It’s like a World Wrestling Battle Royal wrestling match. If one candidate gets 50% of the vote, he wins a seat automatically, there’s no general election. If nobody gets 50%, the top two vote getters advance to a run-ff in November.
Nick Tomboulides: So, we saw 22 pledge signers last Saturday win outright.
Philip Blumel: Wow.
Nick Tomboulides: And another 22 advance to run-offs. It was a very successful day, for term limits.
Philip Blumel: It’s particularly fantastic when you consider that, at the beginning of this campaign season, we had nothing in Louisiana. We had no pledge signers. Now, just going through the primaries … Of course, it’s a jungle primary, but going through the primaries, we already have 22 now, who have signed the pledge committing to supporting the term limits resolution bill. That’s fantastic! We know there’s going to be more, because in these run-offs, in multiple cases, both of the candidates that are going to be participating in the run-offs have signed the pledge.
Philip Blumel: In Mississippi, remember, we talked about on this podcast a few weeks ago, we had 10 cases where we had a term limits supporter facing a term limits opponent. In all 10 cases, the term limits supporter won. So, we are two for two so far in our elections, taking on a new strategy of educating these voters on how these legislators are going to vote on this issue.
Nick Tomboulides: Sure. We can’t take personal credit for getting all these pledges. All the credit goes to the Pledge Team we have here at US Term Limits. Shanna and Les Chamblee, Scott Tillman, Jeff Tillman.
Philip Blumel: Right.
Nick Tomboulides: Aaron Dukette. These folks were indefatigable in going after these pledges from candidates. Following up, not giving up until they had a pledge in hand.
Nick Tomboulides: Basically what this means is, no matter what happens, Louisiana legislature will have an army of term limits convention supporters in it, come 2020. We won’t know the exact number until November 16th, but it’s going to be at least 22, and maybe even higher.
Nick Tomboulides: Word is traveling of what we’re doing, the legislators there are panic-stricken over the mailers, the digital ads we’ve done that reveal their positions. It’s so funny. Before we started plastering these guys’ faces all over the state, and calling them enemies of term limits, they wanted nothing to do with us.
Philip Blumel: Right.
Nick Tomboulides: They blew us off, they wouldn’t return our calls about the pledge. Then, as soon as the mail and the digital hits, they suddenly spring to life like that Warner Brothers’ frog, and start doing the Michigan Rag. By which I mean, pandering on term limits. It’s hilarious.
Philip Blumel: Let’s make it clear, though. We always let bygones be bygones. As soon as you sign the pledge, and support the term limits bill, you’re our buddy, and you’re doing the people’s work. Up until then, all bets are off.
Nick Tomboulides: Amen.
Philip Blumel: The next step is the general election on November 16th. I assume we’re going to be making a big play in that election, as well?
Nick Tomboulides: Yes. Because while there were 22 pro-term limits candidates who had outright wins last week, meaning they got over 50% of the vote, there were another 22 between the House and Senate, who now advance to a run-ff.
Philip Blumel: Right.
Nick Tomboulides: Because they failed to hit that 50% threshold, so what we’re going to be doing is pretty serious voter education campaigns in as many of those districts as possible, to alert people where these guys stand on the term limits convention pledge. We’re expecting to make a sizeable investment in those districts.
Sarah Anderson: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome here to our newest talk at Freedom Works. My name is Sarah Anderson, our Federal Affairs Manager. Joining me today to talk a little bit about term limits, and what’s going on here in the swamp, is Representative Matt Gaetz from Florida’s first Congressional District.
Sarah Anderson: Before we jump into the issue of term limits, share a little bit about your background, how you ended up in politics, and what you’re really doing here in Washington to fight the way that thing are going here most of the time?
Matt Gaetz: Well, I’m a country lawyer from North Florida. I served in our State Legislature for six years. I loved that service, it was dynamic and interesting. At times, bipartisan, and we got a ton done. It was terrible preparation for service in the Congress, where so often we fall short of the expectations that the country rightfully has for us.
Matt Gaetz: So, I ran for Congress in 2016, and was elected in a pretty crowded primary. Then, in a general election. Really, I’m just trying to change this place. I didn’t run as the guy who thought everything was working well, and I wanted to go be a part of it. The pitch I made to my voters is that, “Washington sucks. It’s broken.” It’s broken on purpose, right?
Sarah Anderson: Right.
Matt Gaetz: The special interests win when we don’t get enough done for the country. So, I think that there are a number of structural changes that we can make that will vastly improve our decision making. If we do that, we’ll get better outcomes.
Sarah Anderson: Right. You mentioned that you served some time in the Florida House of Representatives. Do you guys have term limits down there? How is the legislature in your state different than what you watch here happen in Washington everyday?
Matt Gaetz: So, in Florida, our voters took the position that eight is enough. So, eight years in the State House or in the State Senate, and you’ve got to move on to other work. That lead to a vibrance that is so lacking here in Washington, DC.
Sarah Anderson: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Matt Gaetz: It’s because you have a shot clock, you know that you only have a certain amount time to get done the stuff you want to get done. So, you’re more willing to maybe take half a loaf.
Sarah Anderson: Right.
Matt Gaetz: Make some progress, chip away at a major challenge. There’s also more of a churn of new ideas, younger members. You also don’t have time to hold these grudges.
Sarah Anderson: Right.
Matt Gaetz: One thing I noticed around here, some of these old battle axes, they’ve been hating each other for the last two decades. Then, when you try to get them to agree on what to rename a post office, they’ll end up chewing in each other.
Sarah Anderson: Right.
Matt Gaetz: Over the course of a term limit environment, it’s easier to dispense with whatever personal irritant you have with someone, and to get to the business, working for the people we’re supposed to serve.
Matt Gaetz: I far prefer that term limit system in Florida to what we have here.
Sarah Anderson: So, when you look at the state of Florida, obviously, the bill that would implement term limits, a Constitutional amendment, is lead by Representative Francis Rooney, also from Florida. The lead sponsor in the last congress was then Representative Ron DeSantis who is now the Governor of Florida.
Matt Gaetz: Yes.
Sarah Anderson: What is it about Florida? Obviously, you’re now a co-sponsor of this bill, H.J. Res. 20.
Matt Gaetz: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sarah Anderson: What is it about Florida that’s pushing your members to lead on it?
Matt Gaetz: Well, we’ve seen the positive impact of term limits in our state.
Nick Tomboulides: So, Phil, have you ever had Romano cheese?
Philip Blumel: Sure, yeah.
Nick Tomboulides: I accidentally buy it sometimes when the Save A Lot runs out of Parmesan. Romano cheese, if you’ve ever had it, it’s an old, acidic, foul smelling cheese that leaves a really bad taste in your mouth. It’s nasty, and it goes bad really fast.
Nick Tomboulides: I can’t help but notice that West Virginia State Senator, Mike Romano, is a lot like the cheese, which bears his name. He’s a lawyer, of course, who has been in power for five years.
Philip Blumel: Yeah.
Nick Tomboulides:Just for some background, at the tail end of the 2019 session, he was the chump who filibustered the term limits convention in the last 30 minutes of the session.
Philip Blumel: Ugh.
Nick Tomboulides: He ran out the clock, the gong went off at midnight, and we never got our vote in West Virginia. The vote that we pushed very hard for, and the vote the citizens of West Virginia deserved, all because this one guy who thinks he’s a bigger deal than the whole state of West Virginia.
Nick Tomboulides:We had an idea. I believe USTL Field Director, Scott Tillman, had this idea. It was much too clever to have been mine, to stick a big, fat billboard, smack dab in the middle of his district, calling him out for being the worst, nastiest opponent of term limits in the state of West Virginia. Now that billboard has officially gone up in Clarksburg, West Virginia.
Philip Blumel: I’ve seen a picture of it. It’s got a picture of his face and it says, “Senator Romano blocked term limits on Congress.” Then it says, “TermLimits.com/Romano.”
Nick Tomboulides: We’ll put the picture up. If you go to TermLimits.com/Romano, you can see it. The head is overlaid in a blue hue sort of thing. He looks like some kind of corrupt Smurf.
Philip Blumel: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nick Tomboulides: I’m told this is right between his home and his office, so he has to see it every day. His neighbors, his barber, his butcher, his accountant, they’re all seeing it, and they’re all wondering why Senator Romano threw the people under the bus in West Virginia.
Philip Blumel: That’s exactly what he did. The polling that we had done in 2018 showed that 83% of the citizens in West Virginia supported the Congressional term limits resolution, and the House of Delegates passed it, 55 to 42. Our folks there in West Virginia were telling us we were going to pass, if it got a vote.
Philip Blumel: It went all the way to the last day of the session. The session ends at midnight, promptly. Senator Romano, with his filibuster … In fact, let’s play the last bits of it.
Mike Romano: You know, it started with the Magna Carta. The French still claim that they were the founders of democracy. We’re the founders of democracy, we’re the birthplace of democracy, we’re the light on the hill for every other country on this Earth. You know why? Because we have [inaudible 00:17:17], we have Jeffries, we have Stallings, we have Romanos. We’ve got everybody.
Philip Blumel: That was so heartbreaking. In fact, you and I, Nick, were watching this live as it was streaming. When that gavel fell, my heart fell also.
Nick Tomboulides: He knew exactly what he was doing, right?
Philip Blumel: Oh, yeah.
Nick Tomboulides:It’s like in Cinderella, when you know the carousel is going to turn back into a pumpkin? He knew that session would gavel out right at midnight, and if he could just keep his big mouth open for 30 minutes, he could stop this thing from seeing the light of day. It was an intentional act to kill the term limits convention, and prevent anyone else from getting a word in.
Nick Tomboulides:I’ll just say this, politicians, generally, pride themselves on being able to get away with this kind of thing, bad actions and votes. They make the assumption no one is ever going to find out. That might have been true before US Term Limits came along, but it is true no longer.
Philip Blumel: That’s right.
Nick Tomboulides: If you can’t make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
Philip Blumel: That’s it. And we’re going to, we’re not done in West Virginia, by any means. We’re starting right now, putting together a volunteer team, that’s going to go back out there, spread the word about what happened in the last session. It was going to pass, 83% of the voters that support this were going to have their say, and it was robbed from them by Senator Romano.
Philip Blumel: To be involved, anyone in West Virginia should go to TermLimits.com/WV and sign up. There’s going to be an awful lot of activities we’re going to involved in, including a trip up to the Capitol, to the State House, and to go door to door, talk to legislators about passing the legislation. We’ll be doing that in January. Of course, in February, we have term limits day coming up, when the people of West Virginia can make a public display of support of term limits all across the state. So, we’ve got a lot of action coming up, and please be a part of it.
Philip Blumel: If you’re on the other side of this equation, if you’re the politician, you can only survive by hiding, by obfuscating, and by filibustering.
Nick Tomboulides: What they have to do is, basically, get down on their hands and knees, and pray, pray, pray, pray, that the issue never comes up, that no group tries to expose them for opposing this issue. You are absolutely spot-on, it is all about hiding, it is all about creating distractions and obfuscations, because they are afraid to confront this issue head-on. It is that powerful, it is that popular.
Philip Blumel: Thanks for joining us for another episode of No Uncertain Terms. Citizens have unfinished business in West Virginia, where a filibuster from an aspiring career politician prevented a vote on the Congressional term limits resolution. If you live in West Virginia, please go to TermLimits.com/WV and sign up to volunteer. If you know anyone in West Virginia, please send them the link. With your help, the people will have their say.
Philip Blumel: Also, we have another vote coming up in Louisiana on November 16th. We want to educate the voters on who supports the term limits resolution, and who opposes it. This is expensive, please help us out. You can do so at TermLimits.com/Donate. Thank you very much for your help.
Philip Blumel: We’ll be back next week.
Speaker 2: If you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe and leave a review. The No Uncertain Terms podcast can be found on iTunes, Stitcher, and now Google Play.
Philip Blumel: USTL.
Philip Blumel: By the way, in that filibuster, when he mentions his name, Senator Romano, he actually pronounces it Romano, but anyway, we’ll let that go.
Nick Tomboulides: That’s okay. He doesn’t deserve to have his name pronounced correctly. I prefer to call him Romano, cause then my monologue about cheese doesn’t work.
Philip Blumel: Yeah.