Philip Blumel:
It’s time we had a talk. Hi, I’m Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the term limits movement, for the week of March 16, 2020.
Speaker 2:
We’re a sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel:
US Term Limits executive director Nick Tomboulides and I have been taking advantage of every opportunity to spread the word about congressional term limits and the convention strategy to achieve them. Over the last week or so, I was a guest on the podcast of a south Florida congressional candidate, Mike Bluemling, and Nick spent some time with author Neal Simon, who’s been beating the term limits drum in the national media since the publication of his new book. For our podcast this week, we’ll share some excerpts from those conversations. Roll it.
Nick Tomboulides:
Neal Simon, thank you for being on No Uncertain Terms. So Neal, you are a businessman. You are a CEO, come from the financial sector. You ran for the United States Senate in 2018 as an independent against Ben Cardin, who is one of the longest-serving professional politicians in America, and you have a new book out now, Contract to Unite America. It is a fantastic read, and this, is in my opinion, I’ve just read it, it’s a manifesto against partisanship, against tribalism. What you’re doing is you are laying out practical steps on how to bring our country together. So my first question for you is, what motivated you to write this book, and what are you hoping to achieve with it?
Neal Simon:
I’m motivated to try to turn things around for our country. When I was campaigning, and I talked to a lot of people around Maryland and really around the country, one thing that everybody agrees about is that our government’s broken and it’s not working. We’re not addressing the big issues that are important for our society, whether it is preparing for the jobs of the future, improving our education system, controlling our healthcare costs, and solving immigration. Or things like today, having an efficient government that can respond to a crisis like the coronavirus. We’re failing on all measures. And over the years I came to the view that a lot of that was because of the partisanship in our government, that our government has become full of people who care so much about beating the other team that they’ve lost sight of the greater mission, which is, make advances for the American people.
Nick Tomboulides:
You know, just to let our audience know, you are in a unique position as one of the few people who’s actually run, not just against a long-term incumbent, but one of the most entrenched incumbents in America, Ben Carden. When you ran against him, he had been elected for over 50 years. That was two years ago. So the number is just going up, and nobody knows when he might decide to retire. One thing that stood out for me in the book was, when you were running, this was in 2018, his campaign only agreed to one debate with you. And the one they agreed to was on a Sunday afternoon during a Baltimore Ravens football game. So very few people saw it, or fewer people saw it than would have otherwise saw it if it had been in a normal televised slot. Even if you had kicked his butt, Neal, and I’m sure you did, he made sure people wouldn’t know about it. And to me that’s pretty much the trend of how an incumbent behaves, is it not?
Nick Tomboulides:
They will claim, “Oh, why don’t you just vote me out?” But behind the scenes they do everything in their power to stifle the challenger, to ensure that the message can’t get out there in time. What was your experience with that?
Neal Simon:
So the subtitle of my book is, “10 Reforms to Reclaim our Republic.” And one of them that I talk about is term limits, and I’m sure we’ll get to that. Another one is about debates. And most people don’t think about the way debates work, but debates have really been coerced by incumbents and used as another tool to protect their territory. So in my case, Carden actually agreed to have two, but the first one did in fact go very well for us. And it was right after that that I peaked in the polls at 18%. and a reminder to your listeners, I was running as an independent in a three-way race. So 18% was by far more than any other unaffiliated candidate in the country.
Nick Tomboulides:
That’s remarkable.
Neal Simon:
And then what happened was, he would never schedule the next debate. And we had also discussed with his campaign having a series of town halls. He would never schedule those. And there is no mechanism to force that to happen.
Nick Tomboulides:
Yeah, it’s interesting. If you write the rules, you tend to win the game more often than not. That is certainly true for incumbents, but this definitely factors in the discussion about term limits, because one thing we hear so often from the opposition, not just incumbents but also their surrogates and lobbyists and other people who are in that political orbit, is, “Why don’t you just vote me out?” They act as if an election comes down to every American sitting down on Wikipedia on the eve of the election, pulling up both candidates’ bios, and studiously comparing all of their position statements to see what they agree with the most. But of course we know that the reality is very different from that. Incumbents have a whole host of different advantages that they deploy to try to stymie challengers, to try to stifle your momentum.
Nick Tomboulides:
Whether it’s this debating racket, whether it’s the $9 they can get from special interest PACs for every $1 that might flow to a challenger, congressional franking privilege, media coverage, you name it. The deck is so stacked against new blood trying to enter the system and really make change. Did you get a sense of that, not just in debates, but throughout the entire campaign?
Neal Simon:
The deck is stacked against new challengers in every way you can imagine. And it’s far worse than I even dreamed. And I knew I was going to be a long shot candidate right from the start. I was running as an independent, which we all know is something very difficult to do. It does involve debates, it involves the way ballot access works, meaning the way you’re listed on the ballot. The two parties have colluded to create incredible hurdles just simply to be listed on the ballot. Money plays a huge role in this. So you’ve mentioned the nine to one advantage that incumbents have. I’ll tell you, as a candidate the money is all on the extremes as well. So every incentive you have is to appeal to one ideological base or the other.
Nick Tomboulides:
You have a lot of experience in the nonprofit world that you focused on in the book. And you contrasted nonprofit boards that have term limits with boards that don’t have term limits. I just wanted to ask you if you could share a little bit on that and tell us, how did that inform your position on the issue of term limits?
Neal Simon:
Over the years I just noticed a big difference in the way boards function when they have term limits versus when they do not. In the book I tell a story about two different organizations, one with term limits, which was constantly revitalizing itself and taking on big new initiatives and making a bigger and bigger impact in our community. And I compared them to another one where I was on the board 20 years ago. And they don’t have term limits, and they still have some of the same board members that I served with, and they invited me back to an alumni event, and I felt like they were having the same exact conversation that we were having 20 years ago. And I think organizations stagnate when your leadership stagnates. And I think that’s part of what’s happening in our government. Some people argue against term limits, they’ll say, “Well, if you have term limits, you’re losing all these experienced legislators who are so effective at developing solutions for our country. My first reaction is, “Really, do you think we’re doing a good job with that?”
Nick Tomboulides:
Yeah. Where are you seeing success and productivity?
Neal Simon:
But then my second reaction is, they are developing some experience, but it’s the wrong type of experience. The skills that they’re developing by being in the legislature so long are partisan warrior skills. They’re learning how to fight each other and beat each other in a daily news cycle. So I think the experience is actually working against us.
Speaker 5:
Welcome. You’re listening to Live with Michael Bluemling, Jr., episode 83. On today’s program our special guest is Philip Blumel, president of US Term Limits.
Michael Bluemling:
So Philip, thank you so much for coming on the show today, and thank you for trying to fight to get a different voice into Congress, because that’s what’s so important. We have a lot of these people that have been in there for a long time, like Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, and they’re just absolutely destroying America.
Philip Blumel:
The trouble is, since 1970 we’ve seen a situation where, to use the US House as an example, an incumbent running for their own seat wins just shy of 95% of the time. It is hard to beat an incumbent. And what happens is, an incumbent gets in, cannot be dislodged, and never leaves until they are either … Well, until they retire or they die or they’re indicted. And truth is, indictment doesn’t necessarily even do it, because since the last election cycle we had two sitting members of Congress that were indicted for serious crimes, and yet one reelection. So there’s something wrong with the system where 95% of the time an incumbent gets re-elected.
Michael Bluemling:
What’s the cause and effect of people like Lois Frankel, Elijah Cummings, Maxine Waters, Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, all these people across the country, what is the collateral damage that actually has occurred? Because here I am trying to live that American dream, and then it gets shut in your face. How many times has somebody been in that situation and it had a negative impact on their lives, just so that Lois Frankel can become rich in US Congress?
Philip Blumel:
Well, let me ask you, why would Lois Frankel be attentive to constituents, to the voters, to you, when her name doesn’t even appear on the ballot, when statistically she has so small of a chance of losing an election? The people of her district are just simply not very important to her. They’re not required for her to be successful at what she’s doing as a career politician. And Lois Frankel is a career politician. She served in the state legislature where she opposed term limits, then she became the mayor of West Palm Beach, where she opposed term limits. In fact, she even tried to get them extended so that she could stay the mayor of West Palm Beach longer. And it’s only because there was a little bit of a rebellion in West Palm Beach that she had to back down, and the council wouldn’t go along with her plan to loosen the term limit.
Philip Blumel:
So she was tossed out of that position by term limits again and ran for Congress, where she continues to oppose term limits. She is not a signatory of the US Term Limits Pledge to support a constitutional amendment to limit the terms of Congress. And she’s opposed term limits at every turn throughout her career. Now, I don’t think that you should expect a career politician with such a tenuous connection to voters to care about them. And that’s the problem with having an entrenched incumbency. They just don’t need us. And the only way that I can see, the only achievable way that I could see to attack that problem is by changing the process. And the number one reform that I recommend, of course, is term limits.
Michael Bluemling:
There’s several articles out there by members of Congress who were in the system, and they’ve just become disenchanted. And some people learn to accept the bureaucracy and some people just leave. So you either stomach it or you become a part of it or you leave because you can’t take it. So that’s pretty much what we’re under right now. We’re under this system that is failing, and it’s failing the American people. But also as a result there’s a collateral damage that we talked about earlier. We’re 28th in literacy in the world. But before President Trump was here, we were giving terrorist Iran, the Iranians, money to kill Americans. So we’re contributing to terrorist activity and the death of American soldiers.
Michael Bluemling:
So these are the kinds of things, open borders, we’re letting people just come in here and create a … Because there’s a limited amount of resources, unfortunately. And so when you have an illegal coming in, you have sanctuary cities, you have all these things that are happening, there’s a consequence to that. And you can’t just say, “Oh, well, we’ll just rack up more debt. The government will solve the problem, or we’ll kick the can down the road for another day.”
Philip Blumel:
Yeah. You made an interesting point about the way that you’re transformed over time. Because if you’re part of it, you either stomach it and become it, or you leave. And I think that’s part of the process by which the Congress is corrupted over time. Good people will leave if they feel like they’re just banging their head on a wall. Whereas those that actually like it stay and prosper. You know, Ronald Reagan famously said that a lot of times candidates will look at Washington as a cesspool, a swamp. But when they get there, they find out that, “Hey, this is more like a hot tub.” And they like it. They stay. And this is borne out statistically.
Philip Blumel:
When you’re talking about spending and being a fiscal conservative, there was a study done by the Cato Institute years ago. It only looked at Republicans, but then Republicans tend to run on a platform of fiscal conservatism. It’s part of their rhetoric. And they looked at the level of spending of members of Congress based on their tenure. And the truth is that most Republicans getting into office in the US, this is only the US House also, in the US House, Republicans in the US House, actually are fiscally conservative. They’re not big spenders. But after about eight or nine years, 10 years, they are indistinguishable from a 30-year veteran. So what tends to happen is, you get there with ideas, you get there with the idea that this country needs some fiscal discipline. You start fighting that fight, but after about a decade, you give up, you’re done. You’re either going to get the hell out or you’re going to join the party, the spending party. And what usually happens is you join the spending party.
Nick Tomboulides:
So one thing you do discuss in the book that I think is very important is the role of money in politics, namely the dirty tricks that are used by shady groups to influence these elections. I wanted to ask you, in your research and also in your personal experience of having been a Senate candidate, what did you learn about the relationship between money and incumbency?
Neal Simon:
Well, I learned that a lot of the money is on the two extremes. So take, for example, a candidate like me. I was a pro-business candidate, I come from the private sector, I believe deeply that the private sector is the key to generating jobs in this country, to economic growth in this country. But I also think climate change, and that we need to do something about it. So I would get forms from PACs, say the US Chamber of Commerce or a conservation group, that would ask me to check a set of boxes. And I couldn’t check all the boxes on either one of those forms, because I think we need to do something that’s in between, say, two extreme positions. Same on immigration, same on a lot of issues. So what I found with money was that a lot of it is part of the warped incentive system that pushes candidates to the two bases and causes us to have so much stalemate in our government.
Nick Tomboulides:
So you’ve laid out 10 different reforms in this book. Term limits is one of those. And one problem we have with this is, people love term limits, got 82% support with the American public, but it is anathema to the political class. And I would say that might be true about every amendment in your book, honestly, not just term limits. So I want to ask you, are you finding allies among elected officials out there?
Neal Simon:
In general I agree with you. The American public, over 60% of the American public supports every single reform in my book. The highest is term limits. The second highest, by the way, is campaign finance reform. And real campaign finance reform also requires a constitutional amendment. So I think those are the two that are the most difficult. There are some people on the Hill, and I’m sure you know some of them, that have talked about combining those two initiatives together, since one is a little more popular on the right and one’s a little more popular on the left. And I think that that might be the key to getting elected officials behind them. Because at the end of the day, while almost all Americans, or most Americans, are behind all these reforms, the Americans that matter the most are our elected legislators who have the power to implement most of these things. And they are the ones who are most resistant because they benefit from the current system.
Nick Tomboulides:
We have a little expression around the office, which is that chickens don’t tend to vote for Colonel Sanders, which applies, I think, to several of these. What’s next for you?
Neal Simon:
Well, first, when I talk about my book at different events and I talk about the 10 reforms, the one that comes up the most is term limits. Americans are really behind this. And at the end of the day, I think the key to getting it done is to create enough pressure on the people in government that they feel like they have to just get behind it and help. And I know you guys are working to that end, and I’m so grateful for everything you’re doing. Sometimes I’ll say to an audience, I’ll say, “Would we be better off or worse off if Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell had both term limited out years ago and we had different leadership?”
Nick Tomboulides:
Yeah.
Neal Simon:
I think that sometimes bangs it home for people. They understand the value of new blood and new ideas and new energy and how that might change the dynamic in Congress. And we’ll see what comes next. I don’t have any intentions for running for office, if that’s what you’re asking about. But I do have an intention to continue to work, to try to do things that will make our government function better, that will help our country unite, that will help our country actually address the pressing issues that we’re facing.
Nick Tomboulides:
Thank you for that. And based on the agenda you’ve laid out in this book, which is pretty bold, which includes term limits, it sounds like you definitely have an opportunity in front of you right now to make as much of a difference, if not more of a difference, from outside the Senate, from outside Congress, than you might have had to make had you gotten elected. It’s really a tremendous read. And what you mentioned about term limits is so true. It’s the only issue where you can go into a truck stop in Little Rock and say, “Who supports term limits?” Every single hand is going to shoot up. Or you could go in a vegan coffee house in Dartmouth, and the same exact thing will happen. It’s such an issue that cuts across party lines and brings people together, and it really helps unify our country.
Nick Tomboulides:
And Neal, we’re so appreciative that you focused on it in your book, and it’s just been great having you on the program. Once again, the book is Contract to Unite America: 10 Reforms to Reclaim our Republic. It’s a fast-paced read, packed with great information, solutions, including term limits. Thank you for writing this and thank you for being on the podcast.
Neal Simon:
Thank you, Nick.
Philip Blumel:
Thanks for joining us for another week of No Uncertain Terms. The bill in Florida to put eight-year school board term limits on the ballot statewide in November has passed all its committee stops and has been approved by the full House. After passing the Senate rules committee, the bill is now headed to the Senate floor for final approval. Everything weighs on this one vote, which is awaiting scheduling. Florida state senators need to hear from you right now. If you live in Florida, please go to termlimits.com, and under the current actions tab along the top you will see the action item for Florida school board term limits. Click it. Use the online tool to send your senator a message. It takes two minutes, no more. Now, you may have sent a message already, or maybe you’ve done it several times as the bill made its way through the committee process, but do it one more time. This is the final vote. Tell him to vote yes. The vote is imminent. Thank you. We’ll be back next week.
Speaker 7: USTL.