Philip Blumel: Are term limits coming to the US Senate? Hi, I’m Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the Term Limits Movement. This is episode number 241, published on July 1st, 2024.
Stacey Selleck: Your sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: After Mitch McConnell’s long reign as Senate minority, and sometimes majority leader, comes to an end in November, there’s a growing movement to make sure one man cannot dominate Senate leadership as McConnell did over the past 18 years. And the proponents of this idea are not primarily Senate freshmen, but instead include veteran senators, who are competing to take McConnell’s place as the GOP leader in the Senate. We’re talking about Republican Senators, John Cornyn of Texas, Rick Scott of Florida, and John Thune of South Dakota. All are considered serious contenders for McConnell’s position. Cornyn and Scott have come out explicitly in favor of term limits on the Senate majority leader, with Senator Scott specifically calling for a six-year limit. Senator Thune has not endorsed the idea, but says he’s open to it. Alright. Senators Mike Lee of Utah and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin are two others on the record in favor of term limits on Senate leadership. Now, a lot of this conversation and debate is going on privately within the GOP conference, so it’s hard to get a clear picture of exactly what’s going on. But even an opponent of term limits, like Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, acknowledge that conversation going on is “serious.”
Philip Blumel: Senator Scott told Axios that, “I don’t know what for sure is going to happen, but there’s some people that think there’s no question that we’re going to have term limits going forward.” Something is definitely going on. Word is leaking out now from a private GOP conference luncheon in Washington at which battle lines on this issue were drawn. Now, it shouldn’t be too hard to guess who is the primary opponent of such an idea. Senator Mitch McConnell, age 82, who has held the position for 18 years, served in Congress for 39 years and has been a professional politician for 50 years. Surprise! Yes, this is the same Senator Mitch McConnell that vowed there would never be a vote on congressional term limits in the US as long as he held the gavel. Well, we are told that McConnell has received support for his position at this meeting from Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina. For some additional insight on the matter, I offer this recent clip in which Samantha Jo Roth, a congressional reporter for the Washington Examiner discusses McConnell’s position with her editor, Jim Antle, on their Reporter’s Notebook program. Samantha?
Jim Antle: As we know, Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell is stepping down from the Republican leadership at the end of this year, but he has some parting advice for Senate Republicans about how they should handle leadership going forward. What is it?
Samantha Jo Roth: So the Senator has been really outspoken about this. We’ve heard it in numerous of his meetings, from sources, and he’s even talked about it pretty publicly, about the fact that he does not believe that GOP leadership in the Senate should have any kind of term limit. As we know, Senator McConnell had served for 18 years atop of the Senate GOP. That’s a really long time, and…
Jim Antle: Clearly wasn’t a believer in term limits on that.
Samantha Jo Roth: Exactly.
Jim Antle: Yeah.
Samantha Jo Roth: So you wouldn’t be surprised. But he’s trying try to make the case that this will impact fundraising. He has a very successful super pack that he is tied with that has raised tons of money for Senate GOP candidates. He also talked about how Senate Republicans would be at a disadvantage when you look at the comparisons to the House Speaker, since they don’t technically have term limits. But we’ve seen a lot of upheaval in the Senate, particularly among some of the Republicans who are more aligned with President Trump, who are younger, who are trying to make a name for themselves, think about those folks who are really against the Ukraine funding and are just more MAGA and they have been really leading the charge talking about how they believe that a Senate GOP leader should have term limits. And two of these senators who are running to replace McConnell have embraced that Senator John Cornyn, who is the former Majority Whip at the time, who was term-limited and had to step down in 2018, he has endorsed term limits, as well as Senator Rick Scott, which is not a surprise. He’s been talking about that for a long time.
Samantha Jo Roth: Senator John Thune, who is in a lot of ways seen to be the front runner in this race since he is number two Republican in the Senate, he hasn’t gone that far, he hasn’t endorsed term limits, but he has talked about making the amendment process more robust, ensuring that other Republicans have their voices heard. So we will see what happens. But as you noted, the Senate minority leader has really sounded the alarm about the dangers of instituting some kind of term limit.
Jim Antle: And some of the controversy does seem to be about some members of the conference feel like the whole conference should have more of their voices heard.
Samantha Jo Roth: Absolutely. I think a lot of them felt that Senator McConnell did not represent their views, and that he was just there as an institution for 18 years, and now is only the first time that there’s gonna be a new leader come November. Who that is, we don’t know. But I think a lot of those younger Republican members want to see some changes made just so that one person doesn’t stay in power forever.
Jim Antle: They don’t wanna wait 18 years for their own opportunity.
Samantha Jo Roth: Yeah, exactly.
Philip Blumel: Okay. Well, this is all very interesting. But does it matter? We usually talk about congressional term limits that apply to the entire body of Congress, of course. Real term limits create competitive elections, they improve voter representation, they attract higher quality candidates to run for office, they sever the relationships between special interests and decision makers, they improve the incentives faced by legislators in office. The bottom line is that term limits empower voters and revitalize democratic institutions. Now, is term-limiting one man going to deliver results like these? No, but that doesn’t mean that leadership term limits are not important, and in fact, perhaps the benefits are better compared to those of presidential term limits rather than those of congressional term limits, even though we’re talking about a member of Congress. The power that resides in the head of a congressional chamber is tremendous, and it grows over time. This person can decide what bills are heard and voted on, and politicians working under him or her know they better play along if they wanna get anywhere in pursuing their own ambitions. So an 18-year leader like this bottles up debate and prevents fresher voices and current ideas from coming to the fore. This is particularly true when the veteran leader holds a position well into his 80s.
Philip Blumel: Now remember, he’s only leaving his position of power because of frailty. He froze up twice in 2023 and appeared to be unsure where he was. He was unable to speak. So yes, unlimited tenure, once again, permits too much power to concentrate in one individual and retards the ability of the chamber to do its duty in representing voters. Now, note in the clip we heard, the number one reason McConnell gave at the luncheon for opposing term limits, it might hurt fundraising. He wasn’t interested in policy of the people, only politics. Sure, let’s start with term limits on Senate majority leader, minority leader, whatever, let’s term limit the powerful committee chairs and give newer Senators more recently elected in more competitive elections, a greater voice. We can build on that, and we will.
Speaker 5: This is a public service announcement.
[music]Philip Blumel: Andrew E. Dinniman served as a Democratic member of the Pennsylvania State Senate for the 19th District from 2006 to 2020. Today, he serves as the US Term Limits state chair for that state. In this clip, Dinniman explains why.
Andrew Dinniman: The public sentiment for term limits is so strong. And also remember it was here in Pennsylvania that the constitution was put together, and it seems to me that Pennsylvania should be on the lead of this issue. The problem now is that the people in Washington are so focused on getting re-elected and so partisan that they forget that they’re there to help the people. And do we need something? And I think for change and term limits is one of the vehicles to create that change.
Philip Blumel: Next, George Nethercutt. George Nethercutt passed away on June 14th. Do you remember him? George Nethercutt rose to national prominence as a first-time candidate from Spokane, Washington, who in 1994 defeated 30-year house veteran and the Speaker of the House at the time, Representative Tom Foley. This was the first time that this had happened since the Civil War, and the number one issue in the campaign was term limits. Don’t forget, by the end of 1994, 23 states had successfully term-limited their federal representatives via the initiative process after term limits initiatives were approved by voters in state after state in 1990, 1992, and 1994. Term limits were the rage. They were a front page issue, not least due to Representative Tom Foley’s outspoken opposition.
Philip Blumel: Foley actually sued the voters of Washington for passing an initiative in 1992 that would limit federal Congress members’ terms to three, that is six years in office. So George Nethercutt ran ads blasting Foley on the issue. And along the way, he pledged to voters he would abide by the law and serve only three terms. Well, he won. David slew Goliath. And this should be his legacy, of which he could be justly proud. However, that wasn’t the end of the story. Once he got to Washington, he decided he liked it there and he wanted to stay. He defiantly broke his self-limit pledge and ran again, and then again. We noted in the US Term Limits newsletter at the time that when he ran against Foley, only 9% of his campaign money came from PACs, political action committees. But by 1999, as he announced his intention to break his pledge, 91% of his fundraising came from such groups. Do you think this had anything to do with his transformation? The power of the incumbency might have helped him hold on to power for two more terms, but when he tried to run for the US Senate, his dishonesty caught up with him, his pledge-breaking was a big issue in his loss.
Philip Blumel: Can you believe this? [chuckle] I know you can. Back then, Paul Jacob was the executive director of US Term Limits. Basically, the Nick Tomboulides of his day. Here’s how Paul saw the situation back in 2000. I’m quoting now from the same No Uncertain Terms newsletter. “I’m beginning to feel sorry for poor little old George Nethercutt. His case of Potomac fever is becoming critical. You remember Mr. Nethercutt of Washington state? He’s the fellow who pledged to serve no more than three terms in Congress. That was three terms ago. Citizens were so inspired that they defeated 30-year incumbent and House Speaker, Tom Foley, sending Nethercutt to Washington in his place. But now, Nethercutt is breaking his word to the voters. Republican officials have generally circled the wagons for their incumbent, but some put principle first. One is former U.S, Senator, Bill Armstrong of Colorado. Armstrong honorably served two terms in the Senate and then returned home. In 1994, Armstrong sent Nethercutt a $1000 contribution. So this year when Nethercutt broke his pledge, Armstrong was not amused, saying that Nethercutt betrayed the very principle that got him elected.
Philip Blumel: When Rocky Mountain News columnist, Peter Blake, reported Armstrong’s change of heart, Nethercutt’s political handlers zipped off a quick e-mail berating the columnist, “Check your facts. We have no record of Senator Armstrong ever contributing a dime to this campaign.” Armstrong forthwith produced the canceled check from 1994. Nethercutt should be embarrassed. But no, his campaign launched another e-mail attack on the columnist. “Flail away… No one reads your drivel in Spokane… You and your writing will wind up on the ash heap of history.” [chuckle] The ash heap of history, huh? Perhaps one day Mr. Nethercutt might find a spot there.” So I’ll ask again. Do you remember George Nethercutt? He was almost a hero. Our hearts go out to his family. Next. To wind up this episode of No Uncertain Terms, let’s check in with Holly Robichaud. You can find Holly’s program, Breaking News on Term Limits, on YouTube. Here’s a few recent excerpts.
Holly Robichaud: At the Indiana State Republican Convention this past weekend, our State Chair, Micah Beckwith, was nominated for Lieutenant Governor over Representative Julie McGuire, the candidate Senator Mike Braun endorsed. Beckwith pledged to advocate for the Indiana legislature to pass our US Term Limits resolution. Last year, the Indiana House approved the US Term Limits resolution, but we still need to pass it in the State Senate. More and more state legislative candidates across the nation understand that voters want congressional term limits. They’re speaking loud and clear. An additional 61 2024 candidates have signed their pledge in the past two weeks. That’s right. 61. As expected, this trend will only continue to rise higher and higher, thanks to our outstanding pledge team and the support for congressional term limits. Over the past two weeks, we’ve seen an additional six congressional candidates sign the US Term Limits pledge. We are breaking records for the 2024 election cycle. And with this momentum, who knows, we might even get it in Congress.
Philip Blumel: Every day, we make more progress. Thank you for all your help.
Stacey Selleck: Like the show? You could help by subscribing and leaving a five star review on both Apple and Spotify. It’s free.
Philip Blumel: Thanks for joining us for another episode of No Uncertain Terms. The term limits convention bills are moving through the state legislatures. This could be a breakthrough year for the term limits movement. To check on the status of the term limits convention resolution in your state, go to termlimits.com/takeaction. There, you will see if it has been introduced, and where it stands in the committee process on its way to the floor vote. If there’s action to take, you’ll see a take action button by your state. Click it. This will give you the opportunity to send a message to the most relevant legislators, urging them to support the legislation. They have to know you’re watching. That’s termlimits.com/takeaction. If your state has already passed the term limits convention resolution, or the bill has not been introduced in your state, you can still help. Please consider making a contribution to US Term Limits. It is our aim to hit the reset button on the US Congress, and you can help. Go to termlimits.com/donate. Termlimits.com/donate. Thanks. We’ll be back next week.
Stacey Selleck: Find us on most social media at U.S Term Limits. Like us on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and now, LinkedIn.
Speaker 8: USTL.