Speaker 1: While there’s currently no cap on how many terms members of Congress are allowed to serve, imposing congressional term limits has always been a popular idea among the American public.
Speaker 2: It’s far too easy for people to come to Washington and become career politicians and get corrupted by the system.
Speaker 1: Although times are changing, congressional seats aren’t. Once members are in office, in most cases, they can win re-election after re-election easily, nine out of ten times.
Speaker 2: You know, when the framers designed the Constitution, they envisioned citizen legislators who would leave their job for a period of time, leave their businesses, their farms, come to Washington, serve the nation, and then go back.
Speaker 3: Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, produced by US Term Limits. Your sanctuary for partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: The term limits movement is on a roll in 2018. Hi, I’m Philip Blumel, and welcome to the new No Certain Terms podcast. This has been a big year for the term limits movement; earlier this year, the legislators of two states, Missouri and Alabama, joined Florida in officially calling for an amendment proposing dimension under Article 5 of the US Constitution. That would be limited to the issue of congressional term limits. There is clearly momentum in the states for limiting congressional terms, but there is progress being made in Congress itself as well. As the November elections draw near, a record number of congressional candidates have signed the US Term Limits pledge. By signing this pledge, a candidate promises in writing that if elected, he or she will co-sponsor and vote for the US Term Limits Amendment, which is introduced in both houses of Congress every session. I have on the line Scott Tillman. He’s the Field Director for US Term Limits, and he’s been overseeing this effort. Hi, Scott.
Scott Tillman: Hey, Phillip. Thank you for having me on.
Philip Blumel: Oh, sure. So I guess this is a banner year for us. How many candidates have signed the Congressional Pledge so far in this election cycle?
Scott Tillman: Well, we have over 250 new candidates who have signed the pledge. And when you put that together with the number of candidates we have existing in Congress already, we’re almost at 300 for this cycle.
Philip Blumel: Wow, okay. And am I right that that’s the most we’ve had any election cycle?
Scott Tillman: Yes, this is the most we’ve had in any election cycle, going back into the 90s. And I don’t have accurate records back then, but there are a lot of people taking different pledges for different term limits and different things at that time. But in the last few cycles, when we’ve been focusing on this pledge to support a constitutional amendment, this is by far the most signatures, most pledge signers that we’ve had in any cycle.
Philip Blumel: Wow, what do you attribute that to?
Scott Tillman: Well this year, there’s a couple of different things that really contributed to the fact that we’re getting so many pledges. First, we have a lot of activists in the field that are helping us; we have staff at US Term Limits whose well trained in how to go out and ask for the pledges. And we got started a little bit earlier this year, there was some early special elections that went in 2017, 2016. Some people resigned from Congress and retired, and we had some special election. And that gave us a chance to get a jump on the cycle, and we’ve taken full advantage of that. I anticipate, in future cycles, we’ll have similar big numbers that we can push for new pledges. But the fact’s that we were able to get involved early, and we’ve had so much popular support from activists in the community who are willing to go and ask for pledges and other help they’ve given us, really makes a huge difference in the number of pledges we get. And this year, we really capitalized in those.
Philip Blumel: Okay, great. I think you suggested that some of these signatures were from incumbents, is that right?
Scott Tillman: We do have some incumbents who’ve signed. In that almost 300 number, we’ve got quite a few people who have signed and co-sponsored our legislation. I want to say our official number right now is 57, but these things change day to day. So I believe 57 members of the House and the Senate have signed it, and for the most part, all of our signers co-sponsored the legislation. I have a couple of scuff laws, but for the most part, signers co-sponsor. And then we even get some people who haven’t signed the pledge but who do co-sponsor our legislation also.
Philip Blumel: Okay.
Scott Tillman: So this cycle had more people come on and sign as incumbents. New, fresh signers we’ve had in the past, which I wish I had an accurate number for you. But I want to say it’s at least a half of dozen, and maybe as many as 10, who have decided to come on and sign just because they see the way the political wins are blowing. And some of them would like to run for other offices in the future and see this as an issue that really resonates with voters.
Philip Blumel: I see. Now I guess most of them are challengers, though, and of course, most challengers lose, so we have 300-some-odd candidates for Congress that have signed this pledge. Do you have a feel for how many of these signers generally get in office? I know it’s going to be a small percentage of those. And how do you feel this year’s going to be turn out compared to previous ones?
Scott Tillman: Well, in previous years, since we first started this, we had pushed our number up to almost 40 signers in office. And that came out over maybe three cycles; so typically, for new signers going in previous years, we’d be looking at 5 to 10 new signers getting in. I anticipate we’re going to have a much higher number of new signers get elected this year. I’m optimistic that we can get over 30, and maybe even a little bit higher than that with as much support as we’ve had. I’m really hopeful that we can push our number of incumbents, so when we’re talking about this next cycle, we’ll have over 70 and maybe even over 80 incumbents, seated incumbent signers. And hopefully that will translate into even more popular support in Congress, so we get our co-sponsor number up even over 80.
Philip Blumel: Okay. Now the way I understand it is that each election cycle, every candidate for Congress receives a copy of this pledge by registered mail. I suppose that US Term Limits folks follow up with these campaigns to try to get folks to sign, right?
Scott Tillman: We do, yes. It’s kind of a moving target issue that we deal with; so in previous cycles, what we have done is we send out a mailing to all the candidates with a pledge, and then we try to follow up with as many of them as possible. The problem is, because of state election law – not the problem, but the hurdle that we face is because of state election law, by the time we’re sending out our pledge, or at the time we’re sending out our pledge packet and asking candidates to sign, there are some states where not all the candidates have registered yet. And later in the cycle, the pledge goes out, there are a lot of places where the primary’s already done. So it becomes a bit of a challenge. What we did this cycle was we have put up a moving target, we’ve looked at states that have early registration, even before all the people were signed and registered, we were pursuing candidates that were already in. And it has made a large, large difference, the number of pledge signers that we got.
Scott Tillman: By reaching out to them before we do the mailing and reaching out to them in different ways, with state volunteers and other things, we’ve really been able to get to candidates sooner. And getting to candidates sooner is when you can actually talk to them about the ideas and what things they really want to pass, rather than later in a campaign, they become more reactive to things that are in the news cycle now. So by getting to them early, we’re able to find out who really stands for voters and wants what the voters want.
Philip Blumel: Right, so by doing it early though, a lot of these candidates are actually primary candidates. And they’re going to get knocked out early too, right? I mean, we just had a primary election on August 7th. How did we fare, meaning how did pledge signers fare in that election? Do you have a feel for that?
Scott Tillman: Pledge signers on the August 7th election, we have quite a few pledge signers who succeeded. There’s a Senate candidate in Missouri, there’s a Senate candidate in Michigan. And then House candidates in both states that survived. Of course, we are going to lose some, because what happens is we have three Senate candidates in Missouri, all in the Republican primary who had signed. And of course, only one of them can go forward, so our 250 new signer number, right now, still alive, we have about 70 candidates that are still in it after their primaries and what not. But that’s really good compared to what we’ve had in previous years, and even though there’s a big of a drop-off there, you got to keep in mind, in many of those districts, we have several candidates who signed the pledge, and only one of them, of course, can proceed to the general election.
Philip Blumel: Now, how can citizens help in collecting these pledges?
Scott Tillman: We can use all the citizen help we can get. And kind of an interesting thing that we’ve noticed – and you’d suspect it once you think about it – is the more times a candidate gets asked to sign a pledge, the likelihood that they’ll sign goes up. So it’s one thing when I call them several times, or somebody from US Term Limits calls several times. It’s another thing when a couple of people from US Term Limits call, and it’s an even better thing with constituents – not even necessarily constituents in their district – but just regular people, regular votes, call and ask them. So we get a certain amount, and I can’t quote you the percentage right now, just because we ask. And we get a higher percentage when we ask and follow up multiple times. But when we have multiple people ask, then we’re going to get more pledges, and it takes a big jump there. The more people who ask, especially constituents, but even just people who live in the same state or who are friends or friends.
Scott Tillman: One favorite thing that we do is look up this candidate, and maybe you’re not a friend of them on Facebook. But you see that you have three or five friends in common, and that is I have my friend shoot them a request or make a phone call and say, “Hey, are you going to sign this pledge?” It makes a huge difference, so the biggest thing activists can do right now to help us is to contact us, and then we’ll work with you to find out what candidates you’re in the area of. So even if your candidate has signed already, we’ll still find somebody. And having more asks will really help, so if activists can contact us through our website, or STilman@termlimits.com, we can get in touch with you, or you get a hold of us directly, and make those asks. This will really increase the number of pledges that we get.
Stacey Selleck: Well hello. I’m Stacey Selleck, Digital Director for US Term Limits. Before we move on, let me ask you a personal question. Does your congress member support congressional term limits? And how would you know? You can ask him or her, of course, but remember, everyone in Congress has seen the polling. They already know what you want to hear. The best way to find out if your Congress member actually supports term limits on Congress is to check their online scorecard. Right now, go to www.termlimits.com, locate the legislator score card, and press the “find my legislator” button. Enter your address, and your local Congress member, as well as your state’s two senators, will display with their term limits letter grade. If he or she earned an A, that means they have signed the US Term Limits Congressional Pledge, and they co-sponsored the US Term Limits Amendment Resolution in Congress. An F Score means your representative doesn’t really care that 82% of the people want term limits on Congress, and he or she hasn’t signed the pledge or co-sponsored the US Term Limits Amendment.
Stacey Selleck: The grades between A and F mean he or she may have signed the pledge, but failed so far to fully live up to it. For instance, sometimes, a Congress member signs the pledge, but hasn’t co-sponsored the amendment bill yet. Or maybe they have co-sponsored a resolution with weaker limits than specified in our US Term Limits pledge. Back to the scorecard page of the website, there is a link that helps you send a quick and easy email to your Congress members. Let them know you want them to sign the US Term Limits Pledge if they haven’t done so already, or thank them if they did. They really need to hear from you. Again, that’s www.termlimits.com, and thank you for your continued support.
Philip Blumel: Thank you, Stacey. I just went online myself to check the grade of my Congresswoman, Representative Lois Frankel of West Palm Beach, Florida. She got an F. I’m not surprised; Representative Frankel has a long history of opposing term limits. Most notably, when she was getting close to reaching her eight-year limit as the mayor of West Palm Beach, she tried to change the law to keep her well-paying gig. First, she tried to put a citizen’s initiative on the ballot, but found no takers for that. So then she tried to have the city council put it on the ballot instead. Well, that looked like it was going to work – the press was noting that the vote was probably going to be 4 to 1 in favor. But leading up to the council meeting in which that decision was to be made, there started appearing letters to the editor and citizens of waiting signs on street corners saying, “Leave our term limits alone.” And when the Chamber opened its doors on the fateful night, 55 citizens walked in and took their seats, waiting to give the commissioners a piece of their minds.
Philip Blumel: It wasn’t necessary – the Council saw what was going on. They tabled the issue, and Frankel lost. There’s several lessons that came out of this incident, but the big one is this: when citizens are engaged on this issue, they win.
Nick Tomboulides: This is Nick Tomboulides, Executive Director of US Term Limits, reporting live from the Council of State Governments event in Westchester, New York. CSG bills itself as a region-based forum that fosters the exchanged of insights and ideas to help state officials shape public policy. This offers unparalleled regional, national, and international opportunities to network, develop, and collaborate, and create problem solving partnerships. According to them. But what is it really? It’s a big party for politicians. And you’re paying for it. In exchange for pretending to care about key issues, these elite legislators get wined and dined in the mountains of beautiful Westchester, secluded away from the pesky constituents who pay their salary. When voters are away, the politicians will play; they get 5-star cuisine, booze, and special events. Tonight, CSG trucked in a band from Pennsylvania to serenade the legislators with big band music. Tomorrow, the politicians get a VIP tour of Yankee Stadium from none other than Yankee legend Bucky Dent. With perks this sweet, can you blame them for never wanting to leave office?
Nick Tomboulides: As a term limits activist, this is making me crazy. I’m barely resisting the urge to scream. Every single one of these guys walks around with a name badge that says “Representative,” followed by their name. Their friends call them “Representative,” the waiters and butlers here call them “Representative.” But since they all refuse to vote for term limits, who are they representing? Is it right to stop listening to the voters when the voters want to end your gravy train? I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Go to termlimits.org and send me a note. Tell me – do you think politicians’ perks and privileges have gotten out of control? And would term limits address the problem? This is Nick Tomboulides, back to you, Phil.
Philip Blumel: This all sounds great, very optimistic. But let’s talk a little turkey here. When these candidates, most of them are challengers, when they win, and they get in office, do they live up to this pledge? I mean, they’re signing that they are going to both co-sponsor and vote for a specific bill. Are these incumbents who have signed, are they doing this?
Scott Tillman: Yes, almost all of them; every year, we have a couple of [inaudible 00:16:36] that decide not to. But for the most part, when a candidate signs a pledge, and they commit to voters, that makes all the difference in the world. And it takes some pressure off the candidate too – when they sign a pledge, we send them reminders. We get with them, sometimes we got to remind them a couple of times, because Congress people are busy. There’s a lot going on.
Philip Blumel: Right.
Scott Tillman: But for the most part, they almost all come on board and they almost all co-sponsor. And if they’re not, it’s almost always an oversight. What we see is that signing a pledge, it’s something that a candidate takes a step before they get elected. They tell voters how they’re going to vote on this issue, and it just takes the question out of it for them. When the bill gets introduced, it’s just a matter of reminding them of their pledge and reminding them that they signed. And for the most part, they sign up as co-sponsors as soon as they remember or as soon as they see the bill.
Philip Blumel: Okay. Well, that sounds great, but still, let’s say all 57 of these incumbents, and I guess we’ll have some more after this election, when we get through this election cycle. Maybe considerably more, that’d be great, but what’s the end game? I mean, to propose a constitutional amendment by Congress requires two thirds of these guys to sign on. I mean, is it realistic to think that we’re going to be able to reach that hurtle just by asking them?
Scott Tillman: Well, no, not just by asking them, not by itself. This effort complements other strategies that we’re operating simultaneously. We have a state effort right now to work on Article 5 Convention Clause. So in the Constitution, Article 5 of the Constitution actually deals with how to proposed constitutional amendments. This is how our founders set up our governing document, to ensure that when the time comes to make changes, we can make those changes. Now, they foresaw that a lot of changes, of course, would need to be proposed over time if this document was to last. And they made it a route for Congress to propose changes, which is the two-thirds, which you mention. Two-thirds of the house and two-thirds of the Senate. And then they also made another route whereby states can propose changes, and that takes two-thirds of the states. When two-thirds of the states call for a convention on a specific purpose, it’s called a resolution.
Scott Tillman: So when a state legislator, House and Senate pass a resolution, that gets collected by … I don’t know if it’s the Library of Congress that does the collecting, or the Clerical Congress. When we get to 34 states having asked for this specific amendment, a Term Limits Convention Amendment, then it will be called.
Philip Blumel: But we’ll be talking about that complementary strategy in future podcasts. And plus, we’ll get back to you and check in on the progress of the pledge program, particularly after the election. So I want to thank you for coming on, Scott, and filling us in, and we’ll talk to you again.
Scott Tillman: Thank you so much for having me, Phil.
Philip Blumel: Comrades, thank you for joining us for our first stab at a podcast. We got an update on the Congressional Pledge Program, which is an important strategy to set the table for an eventual Congressional vote on term limits, and how you can help. We’ll be back shortly with out next episode. Feel free to fire comments to us, and questions, at termlimits.com. Until next time, fight power, not people.
Speaker 3: This podcast is made possible by the support of you, the American people, and your voluntary financial contributions, which can be made through our website, at termlimits.com. Thank you.
(end podcast)
MUSIC CREDITS – Full versions of the music sampled during this podcast may be purchased via iTunes at the following links :
“N.W.O” written by Al Jourgenson as performed by Ministry, “Night Of The Living Dead” written by Glenn Danzig as performed by The Misfits, “The Trial” written by Roger Waters as performed by Pink Floyd, “Divine Wind” written by Buck Dharma as performed by Blue Oyster Cult
The “No Uncertain Terms” podcast is produced by Duke Decter for U.S. Term Limits
Executive Producer Philip Blumel (President, U.S. Term Limits)