Philip Blumel: Wisconsin is state number five. Hi, I’m Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the term limits movement, for the week of February 28, 2022.
Stacey Selleck: Your sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: Term limits are a great idea, but it’s never gonna happen, right? Nope, it is happening. Last week, Wisconsin joined Florida, Missouri, Alabama, and West Virginia in officially calling for an amendment writing convention under Article 5 of the US Constitution, limited to the subject of congressional term limits. As always, there was a lot of drama involved. For the details, let’s turn to US Term Limits Executive Director, Nick Tomboulides. Hey, Nick.
Nick Tomboulides: Hey! Happy term limits day.
Philip Blumel: Oh, indeed, it was a great term limits day, particularly since we have something to celebrate. And I wanna congratulate you for helping shepherd this. Wisconsin, state number five… We’re on our way. What’s the story?
Nick Tomboulides: That’s right. But I have to correct you; don’t congratulate me. This was the team on the ground in Wisconsin that did such a fantastic job in getting the term limits convention passed last week. And it was quite the story, with a lot of twists and turns. It started last Tuesday, around midnight. I turned on the Wisconsin Senate TV, and I saw our resolution come up for a vote, and I was like, “Oh my god, here we go.” But it failed! Our resolution failed! Term limits lost! We were dead. And then, 30 minutes later, we came back like Lazarus; we came back to life. I don’t know what happened! I still have no idea exactly what happened. I think maybe somebody hit the wrong button? I’m not sure. But they suddenly announced they were voting on it again, and this time, it passed 17-15. It passed to Wisconsin State Senate. We had exactly what we needed, because if any one of those votes flips, you lose. It becomes… If someone who’s a yes votes no, it becomes a 16-16 tie and you lose, so we had exactly what we needed. I’m not sure exactly what happened; there was a lot of drama. There was a very heated and personal debate about some racial issues just before we came up. I don’t know if that had anything to do with the bizarreness of the situation. But we passed the Senate. And then, two days later, on Thursday, the Wisconsin House brought up the resolution and passed it on a voice vote.
Philip Blumel: That is fantastic.
Nick Tomboulides: Which officially makes Wisconsin state number five to call for the term limits convention.
Philip Blumel: Now, we didn’t expect this. We were talking about, in the last few weeks on the podcast, what would be the next state, and several states were thrown out there. I think maybe Tennessee was probably our best bet, as of a couple weeks ago, for being state number five, and then, what happened to push Wisconsin ahead?
Nick Tomboulides: Well, it’s like, yeah, even we didn’t give Wisconsin it’s due, because we did not realize how much Ken Quinn or US Term Limits Regional Director, Jason Church, the Wisconsin State Chair, and our sponsors had accomplished there in such a short amount of time. Wisconsin went from zero to hero very, very quickly because of their hard work. And they pushed it… They got through the committees, and they pushed it all the way… They had to deal with so many hurdles and setbacks too, like we were supposed to be on the calendar a few weeks ago, and then, mysteriously, we weren’t on the calendar, and we were wondering, “Does this mean Wisconsin is dead?” And they just kept fighting and fighting, and they were tireless, and they were tenacious. And I think it was just the solid work of our team that got it done.
Philip Blumel: Well, we had a couple of good sponsors.
Nick Tomboulides: We did. Duey Stroebel in the Senate and Dan Knodl in the House. Duey and his Chief of Staff, John Soper, they were just champions for the cause, champions of congressional term limits from start to finish. You know, we give people who sign our pledge the Champion plaque, the Champion award, but these guys really earned it. They went out, and they didn’t just make the case, but they helped to persuade other members of the legislature to support this. They helped us get to that 17, that magic number in the senate, so, huge shout out to Duey Stroebel, Dan Knodl… We could not have done it without our sponsors.
Philip Blumel: That is great.
Nick Tomboulides: Hey, can I just also mention about one last thing about Wisconsin?
Philip Blumel: Oh, please do.
Nick Tomboulides: You know, in addition to the work of Ken Quinn, Duey Stroebel, Dan Knodl, Jason Church, the Wisconsin State Chair for USTL, was also very instrumental. He was the face and the voice of term limits as a Wisconsinite throughout this whole campaign. He made sure the people of Wisconsin were aware of this. He gave them a reason to get involved and contact their legislators. Jason is a retired… I wanna say Army Captain, who fought in Afghanistan. I thought he brought a level of commitment and integrity to this issue that was also very key for us.
Philip Blumel: Excellent.
Nick Tomboulides: Can I mention one more thing about Tennessee?
Philip Blumel: Yeah. About Wisconsin?
Nick Tomboulides: Oh, sorry, about Wisconsin, yes.
Philip Blumel: Yes.
Nick Tomboulides: Just about the House vote. We said that Wisconsin passed by a voice vote. Technically, that means it passed unanimously.
Philip Blumel: Whoa.
Nick Tomboulides: That means every member of the Wisconsin house voted yes. However, there was no roll call, so people didn’t register their votes individually. In Wisconsin, a member of the legislature can file a note later to indicate they were against something that passes on a voice vote. So far, none of them have done that. And we’re waiting to see if any of the House members did that, but if this book is closed, and the vote was a voice vote, and it was unanimous, that means every member of the Wisconsin House, Republican and Democrat, was supportive of congressional term limits. Give us a week on that to just confirm the numbers, but that is a very real possibility at this point.
Philip Blumel: That’s great. Now, that’s happened before. That was our experience in the first state that passed; in Florida, it passed on a voice vote, and it was pretty much unanimous. I think there was a couple nays thrown in there, but, essentially, it was, and… Again, it was a complete… Basically, it’s the whole legislature, Democrats and Republicans, saying “Yes, we support this.”
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah, and by the way, if you’re a politician who’s thinking about voting no on term limits when it’s going to pass anyway, you know, fire your advisors and consultants, because this is the most popular damn issue in the United States, and, you know, that’s an unforced error, if you’re voting against it when it’s already going to pass.
Philip Blumel: Yeah, and fire your policy guy too, because it’s a good government reform that is desperately needed.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah, that’s right, legislators care about policy as well, sorry. [chuckle] I overlooked that for a second.
Philip Blumel: This just in from iNewZ TV in North Dakota, where citizens have just delivered a heap of signatures to their secretary of state for an initiative to limit the terms of the state legislature.
Speaker 4: In North Dakota, a change to the state constitution that would place term limits on the governor and members of the legislature is a step closer to bringing the issue before voters. Secretary of State Al Jaeger said, Tuesday, that backers submitted about 46,000 signatures, or more than the 31,164 signatures needed to put the measure to voters in November. Jaeger has 35 days to review the signatures. This initiative would add a new article to the state constitution imposing term limits of eight cumulative years each in the House and Senate. The governor could not be elected more than twice.
Philip Blumel: Other news; we had a sitting US Senator, Rick Scott, from Florida, who came out with a plan this week: Sort of a contract-with-America type plan to try to rally Republicans to take back the Congress in November. And prominent in his list of 11 points was term limits.
Nick Tomboulides: That’s right. It’s called The Plan to Rescue America, subtitle, What Americans must do to save this country. And in this plan, he says the permanent ruling class in Washington is bankrupting us with inflation and debt. They must be removed. Hear, hear. Also says we must enact term limits for the Washington ruling class; 12-year limits for Congress and government bureaucrats. So, hopefully, he means 12 years in the Senate, because 12 is obviously much too long for a House member, especially when the president only gets eight years, and Florida legislators and the governor only got eight years. But hey, is Rick Scott starting the conversation on term limits? Yes, and I think you should get a little pat on the back for doing that.
Philip Blumel: This is not the first time that he’s come out forcefully for term limits; he used it in campaign ads when he was running for the Senate, so, he’s on board with term limits, and it’s really exciting to see him use that as part of his Rescue America plan.
Nick Tomboulides: And he’s a co-sponsor on SJR3, Ted Cruz’s US term limits amendment in the Senate.
Philip Blumel: Thanks, Rick.
Nick Tomboulides: You know, what I’m wondering about this is, it’s a plan released on behalf of the Republican Senate majority, ’cause Rick Scott is like the guy who’s been appointed to help the Republicans take back the majority. Do you think that means this plan had Mitch McConnell’s blessing? Could it be? Could it be that Mitch McConnell might be willing to trade his deeply felt hatred of term limits for a majority?
Philip Blumel: Could be. Could be.
Nick Tomboulides: Okay. Well, I’m just wondering, ’cause there was some… There was a little bit of McConnell-esque language in here, and that was the 12-year term limits for Congress and government bureaucrats.
Philip Blumel: Right.
Nick Tomboulides: And the thing about term-limiting bureaucrats is interesting. Most people think staff and bureaucrats spend a lot longer in DC than congressmen. It’s actually the opposite, but that’s still an objection that politicians are trained to say. You know, they’re trained like dogs. When someone brings up term limits, “Oh, the bureaucrats are gonna run anything.” I know that that’s something Mitch McConnell has said, so I’m wondering if maybe that part of the plan is like a little cookie for Mitch McConnell to get his buy-in on this.
Philip Blumel: Could be, and you’re right, I’ve heard that many times before too. I don’t think the idea of term limits on bureaucrats is that practical. I think it’s primarily a rhetorical device that politicians use, and I don’t necessarily object to it greatly, but as long as we get term limits for the Congress in there, I’m happy.
Nick Tomboulides: I’m gonna quote another Florida governor on this, Ron DeSantis, because he’s obviously a big supporter of ours. And I was in a room once when someone said to him, “Well, if you do term limits, won’t the bureaucrats and the lobbyists and the staff be running everything?” And his answer was very short and very sweet. He said, “Who do you think runs everything now?”
Philip Blumel: Right! [chuckle] Yup, that’s it. That sums it up.
Nick Tomboulides: It’s worth keeping an eye on this though, and… Obviously, kudos to Rick Scott for bringing the issue to the table.
Philip Blumel: Thanks for joining us for another episode of No Uncertain Terms. The term limits convention bills are moving through the state legislatures. This could be a breakthrough year for the term limits movement. To check on the status of the term limits convention resolution in your state, go to termlimits.com/takeaction. There, you will see if it has been introduced and where it stands in the committee process on its way to the floor vote. If there’s action to take, you’ll see a Take Action button by your state. Click it. This will give you the opportunity to send a message to the most relevant legislators, urging them to support the legislation. They have to know you’re watching. That’s termlimits.com/takeaction. If your state has already passed the term limits convention resolution, or the bill’s not been introduced in your state, you can still help. Please consider making a contribution to US Term Limits. It is our aim to hit the reset button on the US Congress, and you can help. Go to termlimits.com/donate. Termlimits.com/donate. Thanks. We’ll be back next week.
Stacey Selleck: The revolution isn’t being televised. Fortunately, you have the No Uncertain Terms podcast.
Philip Blumel: USTL.