Donald Trump: We’ve cut more regulations in a year and a quarter than any administration whether it’s four years, eight years or, in one case, 16 years. Should we go back to 16 years? Should we do that? Congressman, can we have that extended? The last time I jokingly said that, the papers started saying, “He’s got despotic tendencies.” No, I’m not looking to do it, unless you want to do it. That’s okay.
INTRO MUSIC : “Surrender” by Cheap Trick
Philip Blumel: There he goes again, ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States of America. Hi, I’m Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the term limits movement for the week of May 27, 2019.
Stacey Selleck: Your sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: Fortunately, we at U.S. Term Limits can take a joke. I mean, he is joking, right? Let’s check in with Nick Tomboulides, the executive director of U.S. Term Limits for some additional insight. Hey, Nick.
Nick Tomboulides: Hey, Phil.
Philip Blumel: Well, the president of the United States last week held a rally in rural Pennsylvania and told his supporters to wild applause that after he wins the second election next November, that he made decide to run for a third, a fourth, and, who knows, maybe even a fifth. Let’s hear it.
Donald Trump: I, we ran one time, and we’re one and oh, but it was for the big one. Now we’re going to have a second time. Are we going to have another one? Then we’ll drive them crazy. Ready? Maybe if we really like it a lot and if things keep going like they’re going, we’ll go and we’ll do what we have to do. We’ll do a three and a four and a five. Watch, they’ll have tomorrow, “We knew he …” No, I don’t want to say it.
Philip Blumel: Nick, I am outraged. Can you believe this president?
Nick Tomboulides: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
Philip Blumel: What do you believe?
Nick Tomboulides: Well, I think he’s definitely got a good sense of humor.
Philip Blumel: Oh, yeah.
Nick Tomboulides: He’s been talking about this since the Chinese president did this a year ago. Xi Jinping, the president of China, used to have a 10-year term limit, and they made him leader for life. So Trump has just thought it’s been hilarious since that point. Obviously, presidential term limits are not going anywhere.
Philip Blumel: No. He’s not serious. In fact, in spite of his joking around about it, he not only is supportive of the presidential term limit, but he’s also supportive of congressional term limits.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah. He came out for it in October of 2016. He didn’t just say that he was for term limits. He actually endorsed the U.S. term limits amendment of three House terms, two Senate terms, and no longer limit. Up to that point, he had an interesting history with this issue. He wasn’t originally in favor of it. Back in 2009 when the mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, was trying to stay on for a third term, Trump thought that was a good idea. So he’s kind of a late convert to the term limits issues, but we are still glad to have him on board. I really hope that he’ll do more, though, to fight for this because I’ve only heard him talk about it twice. There was the announcement in 2016. Then in 2017, he had one meeting with a group of congressmen who favor term limits, tweeted about it, said this is a good idea, and we haven’t really seen anything since. So I really hope that he would get more proactive on this as we go in to the 2020 campaign.
Philip Blumel: I hope so. My sense of his support for this issue is that I think polling might have something to do with it, too. He knows that amongst his base and, of course, amongst the American people in general, this is a very popular idea. Then also now that he’s dealing with Congress, I think he sees in real time that a lot of problems in Congress that would be assisted by having a regular rotation. Yeah, I welcome him on board, absolutely, and look forward to taking some action on it. It was helpful for him to talk about it, but I want to see some action.
Nick Tomboulides: Definitely. As Harry Truman said back in, I think, 1951, “Term limits cure two legislative diseases: seniority and senility.” That’s when the 22nd Amendment was passed term limiting the president. But Congress, which proposed this amendment, conveniently omitted themselves. That’s what we’re looking to rectify here, and that why it’s encouraging to see that he’s talking about it. We hope more presidential candidates will be talking about it in the future.
Scott Tillman: Hello, this is Scott Tillman the national field director with U.S. Term Limits. We ask candidates for state legislature to sign a pledge to help us get congressional term limits. The pledge reads, “I pledge that as a member of the state legislature, I will cosponsor and vote for the resolution applying for an Article V convention for the sole purpose of enacting term limits on Congress.” There are only a few states having elections in 2019. We currently have 14 candidates in Mississippi, seven candidates in Louisiana, and five candidates in Virginia who have signed this pledge to support congressional term limits as state legislatures.
Scott Tillman: Last Tuesday, May 21st, two U.S. Term Limits pledge signers won in Pennsylvania special elections. Fred Keller, who pledged to support the U.S. term limits amendment in Congress, was elected to the 12th Congressional district of Pennsylvania, and Doug Mastriano, who pledged to support the Article V resolution for term limits in the state legislature, was elected to the 33rd state Senate district. If you have access to a candidate, please ask them to sign our pledge. Pledges are available at termlimits.org.
Philip Blumel: Fortunately, there are other candidates that are supportive of congressional term limits. We’ve been talking about that on this podcast over several episodes. With more and more Democratic candidates joining the field, we’ve been doing our best to smoke them out and find out what their positions are on the issues. Kudos to Ken Quinn who’s been all over New Hampshire going to every event he can and asking the question, “Where do you stand on congressional term limits?”
Nick Tomboulides: Well, there are over 500 people running for president in 2020. My mom is running for president. We don’t have time to discuss all of them, so what I did-
Philip Blumel: How does she stand on term limits by the way?
Nick Tomboulides: She thinks we have term limits. They’re called elections.
Philip Blumel: Oh, come on.
Nick Tomboulides: No, I’m just kidding.
Philip Blumel: Okay, I’m going to have to have a talk with her.
Nick Tomboulides: We’ll edit that out later. My mom’s not really running for president.
Philip Blumel: No, I don’t think so. No, I don’t know. I don’t know about that.
Nick Tomboulides: There are 25 major candidates who have the most name recognition. These are people who have collected a significant number of campaign donations. They’re getting media coverage. They have the best chances of winning. We’ve basically taken an inventory of where they stand on this issues. You can find it at termlimits.com. There are only two Republicans: President Trump and former Massachusetts governor, William Weld. He’s staging a long-shot bid to try to unseat Trump. Both Republicans do support term limits. Among the Democrats, it’s a lot more mixed. There are 23 major candidates. Right now, eight of them support term limits. Nine of them are opposed, and five of them are unknown. We can go into the individual candidates if you like.
Philip Blumel: Well, we’ve talked about several of them so far. But this week we had a couple of the candidates come out and talk about the issue of term limits. We had Seth Moulton, the congressman from Maryland. We weren’t sure how he stood on congressional term limits, but it turns out, as we’d suspect, that he is supportive of the idea. He was on a program last week where he made that announcement.
Seth Moulton: Term limits for members of Congress is a very controversial idea. But at the end of the day, I think it would probably make Congress better. Because if you went to Congress knowing that you had a certain period of time to get things done and to do the right thing for the country and that was going to be your legacy, not just how many times you could get reelected, then maybe you would make better decisions. There’s this perception we have about presidents, which is that they always do their best work in their second term because they’re not worried about getting reelected. They’re just trying to do the right thing for the country. Well, maybe if we had term limits on Congress, that would help as well.
Seth Moulton: Now, I know that I’m going to make a lot of members of Congress, my colleagues, upset by saying this, but the fact of the matter is that Congress isn’t working right now. I mean how many of you think that Congress is just knocking it out of the park, just totally killing it, right? No. No, it’s not. When I get elected, one of the first things I did is I brought in as a chief of staff a startup executive because I was like, “We need to totally rethink this.” I got this little handbook about this is the way that you do Congress the way everybody else does Congress. I’m like, “Why would I want to do Congress the way everybody is doing Congress?” So we need to change. We need to change the system. Maybe term limits won’t be necessary if we make some other reforms, but it’s something that absolutely should be on the table because I think it would make Congress stronger and better, and it would remind members of Congress that they’re there to do what’s right for the country, not what’s right for their reelection.
Speaker 7: This is a public service announcement.
Philip Blumel: In 1966, Ronald Reagan famously called for gubernatorial term limits during his successful race to unseat incumbent California Governor Pat Brown, but it wasn’t until 1990 when the citizens of California used the initiative process to put term limits on the governor as well as the California state legislature. Special interests outspent the term limits’ forces 30 to 1, but November of that year Reagan’s call for eight-year term limits on the governor was answered. Better, the citizens simultaneously put six-year term limits on the state assembly and eight-year term limits on the state Senate and other state offices. Here’s Ronald Reagan, 1966.
Ronald Reagan: As the governor, and I believe I can say with confidence with virtually the full support of this team, I will seek whatever legislation is necessary to henceforth limit any and all governors of California constitutionally to no more than two terms in office. Now since this seems like too short a time for a man who likes to refer to himself as not only a good governor but a great governor, I think he should remember that two terms by constitutional amendment is long enough for any president of the United States. If a man can’t do the job in eight years, what makes us think he can do it in 12? But seriously, I believe that such legislation would testify to the underlying belief and principle of our party not that we just oppose some particular individual as having too much power or being around too long, but that we basically believe that power endangers the freedom of the people when it is entrusted into the hands of anyone but the people and that no individual or group including ourselves must be allowed to endanger that trust.
Nick Tomboulides: Of the 23 Democratic candidates, not a single one is making this issue the centerpiece of their campaign. You’ve got people who are talking about the environment. That’s fine. You got people who are talking about campaign finance reform. But nobody has said, “I’m going to be the term limits guy,” and there’s a great opportunity out there for someone to do that.
Philip Blumel: Who is risen as the closet to being the standard bearer of the term limits flag?
Nick Tomboulides: I would say that Beto O’Rourke is probably the closest to that.
Philip Blumel: Yeah, I think that’s what I would point to.
Nick Tomboulides: Of all the candidates, Democratic and Republican candidates, he’s the only one who signed the U.S. Term Limits pledge-
Philip Blumel: Excellent point.
Nick Tomboulides: … while he was in Congress. He was a co-founder of the Congressional Term Limits Caucus along with Rod Blum. He has been very supportive over the years. I would say he has the opportunity to be the standard bearer for the issue, but he hasn’t really seized it yet. It’s a missed opportunity.
Philip Blumel: Not since he announced as president I’ve not heard him utter the words, although I heard it all the time when he was in the Congress.
Nick Tomboulides: When we look at the field, we can almost tell by clockwork who’s going to be the term limit supporter among this field and who’s not. It’s like the newer congressmen, the people who are just getting their feet wet in politics, way more likely to be supportive versus the Joe Bidens and Bernie Sanders of the world who just say, “Oh, no way.” The guys who have been in office since Methuselah was walking the Earth are typically against term limits and with good cause because they don’t want to look like hypocrites.
Philip Blumel: To your point, New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand came out on the stump in New Hampshire, again to Ken Quinn, giving us her view of the issue.
Ken Quinn: 82% of Americans want term limits for Congress. Would you support term limits for Congress finally on behalf of the American people?
Kirsten Gillibrand: I do support term limits, and the reason I do is the reason you stated. I think there’s so much corruption in Washington. Everyone here knows Washington is broken. We all know it. The voters know it. It’s why we don’t have as high of a voter turnout as we should because people say things like, “My vote doesn’t matter. Everyone’s corrupt anyway. They’re all the same.” It’s true. It’s how people feel.
Kirsten Gillibrand: So I have a couple of solutions to address it. I think term limits is one. I don’t know exactly what term limits is the best one. I don’t know if you should let Senators be there for 12 maybe and House members be there for 12 years maybe. I’m not sure what the right number is, but it’s something we could look at, study, and figure out and make a proposal. I know it works in places in New York State. When we have them, we have a couple of places that term limits. New York City does, and it works well to create a constant flow of new people, new energy. Some seniority is useful because you know what you’re doing, so you don’t make stupid mistakes every time over and over again.
Nick Tomboulides: Kirsten Gillibrand’s interesting because she is one of the few who has acknowledged this link between careerism and the amount of money in politics. Gillibrand is a huge workout, crossfit aficionado. There are videos out there of her arm wrestling voters. I would like to see her body slam some career politicians in this campaign.
Philip Blumel: You bet. Who shows up, do you think, as the biggest opponent of term limits?
Nick Tomboulides: It’s probably a tie between Biden and Bernie Sanders. Whoa, what is that? A phone? This isn’t a call-in show. Bernie from Vermont, you’re on the air.
Speaker 11: What a second. Isn’t this the Karl Marx Power Hour?
Nick Tomboulides: No, this is No Uncertain Terms. It’s a podcast about term limits.
Speaker 11: Oh, for the love of Lenin. I’m so sorry. I have the wrong number. I apologize but term limits, huh? That’s pretty interesting. I’m more into bread limits myself but I’d like to-
Nick Tomboulides: Spending nearly four decades in Washington tends to do that to a person. What I really like about Bernie Sanders, even though he’s wrong, he’s consistently wrong. When he first came to Congress, he was against term limits, and he remains against it today. It’s no shock. He’s run for office 23 times. He’s held office 36 of the last 38 years. But what really surprises me is that he has the audacity to call it undemocratic. Calls term limits undemocratic. How could you say that-
Philip Blumel: Really?
Nick Tomboulides: … when 82% of people want term limits to happen? Is that not democracy? Do people not get to choose democratically what the rules, parameters should be around elected office? Term limits is a central part of it.
Philip Blumel: It’s outrageous to say it’s not undemocratic when you consider that most term limits that we have in place in America have been put there by initiative and referendum.
Nick Tomboulides: Right.
Philip Blumel: Nick, before we go, what’s happening in Arizona? We’re getting to the end of the session. We have one, which the Senator or the House, which one?
Nick Tomboulides: We’ve won the House. The Arizona House has voted for the term limits convention.
Philip Blumel: We’re waiting on a Senate vote. We’re not getting it. I’m worried. What’s happening over there?
Nick Tomboulides: Well, it’s the Senate president, Karen Fann, who is electing so far not to bring it forward for a vote. But the encouraging development this week is that the state House is now holding her feet to the fire. Jay Lawrence, state representative in Arizona, has sent a letter to Senate President Fann telling her that term limits have support from an overwhelming majority of Arizona voters, a majority of Republicans and Democrats support it, and that she needs to bring this for consideration by the state Senate as soon as possible. He’s got seven co-signers to this letter as well including some very prominent state House members.
Nick Tomboulides: Our hope is that the state House gets even tougher with the state Senate. Starts holding some of its bills hostage, impounding bills that have passed the Senate and saying, “We will not vote on these, Senate President Fann, until you agree to hold a vote on term limits.” We know if term limits gets to the floor, it’s going to pass. It has the votes. We don’t why they’re dragging their feet. But it’s obviously in the best interest of every Arizonan, every American, that this gets the vote and that Arizona is added to the list of term limits convention states.
Philip Blumel: Senate President Fann is a signer of the U.S. Term Limits pledge to support this policy.
Nick Tomboulides: She is, and she needs to keep her word.
Philip Blumel: So anyone in Arizona, the current action is still on our website, so if you go to termlimits.com and find the tab that says Current Actions, pull it down. The very top one regards Arizona. If you click on that, you’re going to have an opportunity to send a message quickly and easily to the relevant people in Arizona including Senate President Fann and telling them we want to vote on this. Now, if you don’t live in Arizona, please don’t do this, but if you live in Arizona, please do and send that link to everybody you know. It’s a crucial. It’s time, so please act now.
Nick Tomboulides: I’ll leave you with a quote from Jay Lawrence in this letter. He says, “It would be bad for everyone if such a popular bill were derailed by Republican leaders two years in a row and bad for the overall environment here in the state House if popular bipartisan bills that cleared the state House got stuck in a desk drawer in the state Senate.” Very well said.
Philip Blumel: Very well put. (singing) Thanks for joining us for another episode of No Uncertain Terms. Last week, we requested comments from listeners, and they’ve started to roll in. For example, David [Copestake 00:19:24] of Gainesville, Florida, says, “He greatly enjoys the podcasts. The format and topics of discussion are great.” He went on to offer a critique and practical suggestions to improve the podcast. We’re listening. That’s precisely what we’re looking for. David says he’s been reaching out to his local and state reps pushing the term limits movement. Excellent. Thanks David. (singing)
Philip Blumel: Please send us an email and let us know what you like about our podcast. We like to have fun putting this together. Does this make the podcast more engaging, or does it detract from our message? We aim to be a sanctuary from partisan politics. Do we succeed? Let us know. Send us an email, podcast@termlimits.com. After we get a sufficient number of responses, we’ll hold a drawing amongst the respondents and offer a prize. No? We still haven’t decided what that’ll be. Maybe next week. Until then. (singing)
Nick Tomboulides: I’d-
Philip Blumel: We-
Nick Tomboulides: What was this listener’s name? In the voicemail, did the listener sound like this? and say, “Frankly, I’m disgusted that you’re giving such a huge amount of time to Democratic presidential candidates. You need to talk more about me.”
Philip Blumel: Thats him!
Nick Tomboulides: “I mean about President Trump.”
MUSIC CREDITS – Full versions of the music sampled during this podcast may be purchased via iTunes at the following links :
“Surrender” by Cheap Trick, “Know Your Rights” by The Clash
The “No Uncertain Terms” podcast is produced by Kenn Decter for U.S. Term Limits
Executive Producer Philip Blumel (President, U.S. Term Limits)
