INTRO MUSIC : “Washington Bullets” by The Clash
Philip Blumel: Down in the states, the legislative sessions are wrapping up for the year. How did term limits fare? More importantly, how are we positioned for next year? Hi, I’m Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the term limits movement, for the week of June 3, 2019.
Stacey Selleck: Your sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: US Term Limits Executive Director Nick Tomboulides has been taking score. Hey, Nick.
Nick Tomboulides: Hello, El Presidente.
Philip Blumel: Well, it’s the end of the 2019 legislative sessions in the states, most of them, and certainly the ones that we were playing in. We made some progress in some, didn’t lose any ground anywhere. Let’s go over that and see how we did.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah. Well, I would say, overall, it was a good year. There was a lot of forward momentum. We had passage in three legislative chambers, including Georgia, where it is a two-year session, meaning that passing in the State Senate carries over into 2020. We need to get the House next year. We got the Arizona House, we got the West Virginia House. Basically, what we’re proving, is that state legislators are willing to vote for term limits on Congress, under the right condition. That is no small deal.
Philip Blumel: No, and it’s the third year of progress. We started this project three years ago. We got Florida, we got Missouri, we got Alabama, all of which called for a amendment-writing convention under Article V of the Constitution, limited to the subject of Congressional term limits, and we made some more progress this year. Now, the Georgia, we only have one more House to take care of next year. On the other two, though, we have to start over, don’t we?
Nick Tomboulides: Well, we have to go back in, and we have to get another vote in the Arizona House, and the West Virginia House, but that doesn’t mean that we’re starting all over, because what’s happened is, since we’ve made this headway everywhere, we now know who our yes votes are, we know who our no votes are. It largely doesn’t change on a year-to-year basis, unless you have an election, and the elections in these states are not until November of next year, meaning you’re going into the game with the same players as you had this year.
Nick Tomboulides: We have pledges from dozens of these legislators, and also candidates, to put pressure on legislators, so we’re expecting that the whip counts … The whip is your yes and no count, in terms of a vote, and Arizona and West Virginia are going to hold strong. If this is a football game, we are moving the ball down the field, we’re completing passes, the movement is incubating, and we’re developing new activists every day, who really are going to be energized to come out and hold legislators’ feet to the fire next year.
Philip Blumel: Okay, excellent. Good. All right, so those three are definitely going to be on our list of target states for next year. Are there any others that we’ve decided on yet, or I’m get ahead of the game here?
Nick Tomboulides: Well, we’re kind of in the research phase of that, right now. There are a lot of states that look promising. Tennessee, is one where we saw there some action a couple year ago. They’ve had new leadership come in, in the State House side, and we think Tennessee could possibly be viable next year. South Carolina. Maine is a state where, last year, we actually passed the Senate with a pure majority. The problem is, you need a 2/3 majority to pass the Senate in Maine. So, we need to work a little bit harder. It’s going to be an election year, meaning that candidates are going to be more willing to listen to what the people have to say. It comes down to motivating your state legislators, that’s it.
Philip Blumel: Okay. One interesting state, this year, was Utah. In Utah, there was a vote, a successful vote, for an Amendment V convention. It was on a broader range of subject than just term limits, but it explicitly included Congressional term limits, as part of the call.
Philip Blumel: I know that you and I have gone over this many times, Nick, and with our team, and there’s really two ways to look at this. We’re trying to pass a application in these states, that call for a Amendment V convention, strictly limited to the subject of Congressional term limits, but there’s other organizations out there also looking to hold conventions, on a broader range of subjects, and they include term limits. So, we have three states that have called for the narrow term limits convention, and there’s 11 additional states, that have called for a broader convention, explicitly including term limits, and Utah is the latest, in 2019.
Nick Tomboulides: Right. It’s not that the Utah legislators didn’t like term limits, obviously they did, they just wanted the convention to also include possibly balancing the federal budget, and a few other things. But, there’s some legal opinions out there, including one from Rob [Nielsen 00:04:45], who is considered the foremost authority on Article V and the amendment process, which say that when states have passed calls for conventions that include term limits, and a couple other subjects, that can actually be combined, potentially, with states that have strictly called for term limits, to have a convention just on term limits.
Philip Blumel: Right. We know we have three states calling for a term limits convention. We may have 15.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah, exactly right. It’s a very positive development in Utah. That doesn’t mean we’re going to stop asking the Utah legislature to call for the single issue convention, but this is definitely a strong step in the right direction.
Scott Tillman: Hello. This is Scott Tillman, the National Field Director with U.S. Term Limits. We asked candidates for state legislature to sign a pledge, to help us get Congressional term limits. The pledge reads, “I pledge, that as a member of the State legislature, I will co-sponsor and vote for, the resolution applying for an Article V convention, for the sole purpose of enacting term limits on Congress.”
Scott Tillman: There are only a few states having legislative elections in 2019. We have had seven candidates take the pledge this week, and we now have 16 candidates in Mississippi, 10 candidates in Louisiana, and seven candidates in Virginia, who have signed this pledge to support Congressional term limits, as state legislators. If you have access to a candidate, please ask them to sign our pledge. Pledges are available at TermLimits.com.
Philip Blumel: Now, we had some other interesting action in the states as well. In Missouri, for instance, there was a vote to put a state-wide referendum on the ballot. I don’t know if they’ve chosen the date, but I believe it’s going to be this November, that will ask voters whether they want to add 8-year term limits to the rest of the state-wide officers, that do not already have them. I’m going to include Lieutenant Governor, and Auditor, and Attorney General, and other positions. That passed the Missouri legislature on a bipartisan basis, and it looks like voters are going to be able to make that choice. I think it’s pretty clear, what they’re going to choose.
Nick Tomboulides: It’s a big win. If I were in Missouri, I would be super excited to have the opportunity to vote on that. I think what it also shows us is … Well, you have to ask, well, why are a bunch of legislators voting for term limits on the State Auditor? Why are the voting for it on the Attorney General, Lieutenant Governor, because they might want those positions one day, right?
Philip Blumel: They might. True.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah. So yeah, it’s pretty damn logical for these guys. They all want to get those jobs, but they won’t be able to move up, if the incumbents stay forever. Doesn’t that sound familiar? That’s exactly what we’re dealing with in Congress. So, it really is reaffirming to me, because it shows that state legislators have an incentive to want term limits on higher offices, and I think that portends very well, for our effort to do it in Congress.
Philip Blumel: Yes. There’s another dynamic at work in Missouri, and other places. Missouri has been a pioneer on term limits, in general. They have term limits on their state legislature. Last year, they passed the Article V convention bill, strictly limited to Congressional term limits. Politicians in the state know that people in Missouri care about this, and are attentive to this, and the issue has momentum, carrying over from last year, with the successful vote on the term limits convention. Politicians put this on the ballot, because this was a legislative referral, not an initiative, and they put this on the ballot. They understand that people want this, and they are giving it to them, and so these efforts help each other.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah. It helps to look at the term limits as a wholistic movement. It’s not just one bill, it’s not just one state, it’s not just one level of government. It’s this idea, of people all over the country, taking power back from career politicians, and restoring this idea of a citizen-run government. Whether you’re doing it for your city council, or for Congress, it’s going to spark a dialogue, it’s going to get people talking about this.
Nick Tomboulides: So then, I think the question becomes, what’s going to make the difference between success and failure, for the big prize, Congress, comes down to motivating legislators, state legislators. Not just your Congressman up in Washington, but the state legislators, who represent you in the state capital. They are the deciders, with the power to make or break term limits, and we need to crank up the pressure on these folks.
Philip Blumel: Yeah. We’ll keep it up. What other state moved on term limits in 2019?
Nick Tomboulides: Well, Florida, obviously.
Philip Blumel: Oh, Florida, of course.
Nick Tomboulides: We worked really hard on the school board term limits effort, and it came up just short this session, but we were aiming for the 2020 ballot anyway, and we have good reason to believe that we will succeed in the 2020 session, to keep it on-track for the 2020 ballot.
Philip Blumel: Yes. Here’s another state where the people have spoken on term limits, so many times, that the politicians are very aware in Tallahassee, that this something that is important to people.
Nick Tomboulides: That’s why we call it the term limits state, right?
Philip Blumel: That’s it. That’s it.
Nick Tomboulides: Florida has, I think, more term limits per capita, than any other large state. Colorado might beat them, but yeah, it’s amazing that it’s become such a powerful issue here. You can’t run for office in Florida without being pro-term limits. I’ve heard stories of legislators who get to the state capital, new legislators, and they start talking about how, “Well, I don’t like term limits. This is BS. I don’t want to stick around … I want to stick around longer than eight years.” And then, someone with a little bit more experience, tends to pull them aside and say, “I don’t think you should be talking like that. You don’t know these term limits people. You don’t know how crazy they are. If you keep talking like that, they’re going to make your life a living hell,” and we do. We wear it as a badge of honor.
Speaker 5: They pout, they cry, they stomp their feet, but mostly, they embarrass America. This is Politicians Behaving Like Children.
Steve Mnuchin: I was going to answer that.
Maxine Waters: Just, please, go straight to the answer.
Steve Mnuchin: Mr. Chairman, I thought when you read the rules, you acknowledged that I shouldn’t be interrupted.
Philip Blumel: Back by popular demand, another sandbox battle between California Representative Maxine Waters, and Secretary of the Treasury Steve Mnuchin. This play date gone wrong occurred in front of the Financial Services Committee in July 2017, before Waters became Chair of that committee.
Steve Mnuchin: I would have the opportunity-
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time. What he failed to tell you was, when you’re on my time, I can reclaim it. He left that out, so I’m reclaiming my time. Please, will you respond to the question, of why I did not get a response, me and my colleagues, to the May 23rd letter?
Steve Mnuchin: Well, I was going to tell you my response-
Maxine Waters: Just tell me.
Steve Mnuchin: Okay. So, first of all, okay, let me just say that the Department of Treasury has cooperated extensively with the Senate Intel Committee, with the House Intel Committee-
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time.
Steve Mnuchin: … with the Senate Judiciary Committee. Okay.
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time.
Steve Mnuchin: As a matter of fact-
Speaker 8: Mr. Secretary, the time belongs to the gentle lady from California.
Steve Mnuchin: Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, I don’t understand the rules, because I thought I was allowed to answer questions.
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time. Would you please explain the rules, and do not take that away from my time.
Speaker 8: We will give the gentle lady adequate time. So, what I read, Mr. Secretary, were statements of the ranking member, and Democratic colleagues, on how administration witnesses should be treated, not necessarily the way they will be treated.
Steve Mnuchin: I would like emphasize, we believe we’ve been very responsive-
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time. [crosstalk 00:12:36]. Thank you very much. You left a message yesterday, or someone on staff left a message-
Steve Mnuchin: No, we didn’t leave a message-
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time.
Steve Mnuchin: … we spoke to the Chief Oversight [crosstalk 00:12:44].
Maxine Waters: Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time.
Philip Blumel: Paul Jacob is a board of U.S. Term Limits and President of the Liberty Initiative Fund.
Paul Jacob: Today’s installment of Common Sense is Knock Down the Incumbency. Over the weekend, I suffered through Knock Down the House, so you don’t have to. While the documentary, heralding four inexperienced Democratic women running for Congress in 2018, cost Netflix $10,000,000, I did not have to spend a dime, beyond my regular monthly subscription.
Paul Jacob: The award-winning film, directed by Rachel Lears, who wrote it along with her husband, Robin Blotnick, is expertly crafted. Unfortunately, it is geared to Democratic Socialists pre-disposed to adoring the subjects. The star is now Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who defeated then-Rep Joe Crowley, a 10-term, 20 year incumbent, the number four Democrat in the House of Representatives.
Paul Jacob: In addition to Ocasio-Cortez, the movie follows Amy Vilela, seeking to replace a retiring Nevada Democrat, Cori Bush challenging the Clay family’s hereditary Congressional dynasty in Missouri’s 1st District, and Paul Jean Swearengin battling incumbent Joe Manchin in West Virginia’s Democratic Party Primary.
Paul Jacob: Of the four challengers chronicled, all of whom received extensive support from two progressive groups, Justice Democrats and Brand New Congress, AOC was the only winner. “Let’s assume all the energy in this room can get you on the ballot, and into office”, offers a fellow at one of Ocasio-Cortez’s early meeting, “How then do we overcome the drop in power?”
Paul Jacob: AOC responds, “I think we really need to have a look at what that power does now. When it matters, Representative Crowley doesn’t stand up for us. When it matters, he doesn’t advocate for our interests.” Whatever one thinks of AOC’s politics, her point here is not without merit. The idea that we citizens benefit from long-time incumbents, who bring home the bacon, is baloney.
Paul Jacob: This is Common Sense. I’m Paul Jacob. For more Common Sense, go to ThisIsCommonSense.com.
Philip Blumel: We’ve been talking about Democratic candidates running for President, over the last several episodes, and we’ve been smoking them out, regarding their position on term limits. You’ve heard from our own Ken Quinn, who’s been active doing this. This week, I want to talk a little bit about the Republican Primary, and yes, apparently there will be one. We have a long shot contender, in the former Governor of Massachusetts, two-term Governor William Weld. William Weld is someone we know very well. He was interviewed on Christiane Amanpour’s program. Let’s hear just a piece of that.
William Weld: A bunch of people in Washington, in both parties, really only care about one thing, which is demonizing the other party, so they can scare their base into giving so much money, that they can get re-elected. That’s not my mindset. When I was in office, I was the National Chairman of U.S. Term Limits. So, I don’t see the situation the same way, office-holders in Washington do. I think what we need in Washington, is a good dose of what I did, in my two terms as Governor, reaching across the aisle, to the other party, and getting solutions that work for all the people.
Nick Tomboulides: William Weld is an interesting candidate, because he was actually Vice Presidential Candidate in 2016, for the Libertarian Party. Prior to that, he was a Republican Governor of Massachusetts, and he has now jumped back into the Republican Primary, to do this long-shot bid against Donald Trump.
Nick Tomboulides: Phil, you have some experience with Weld. I know you’ve met with him in the past. What do you make of all this? What do you think his role is, in the context of the broader movement here?
Philip Blumel: Well, he’s always been seen as a maverick, and he’s always called himself a Libertarian, by the way. He was elected two terms, to the Governorship of Massachusetts, which is a very Democratic state, and he won it as a Republican. A straight-line Republican wasn’t really going to win that position, and he’s not, but one thing he has never wavered on, is term limits. He was talking about term limits in the ’90s, and he mentioned in this clip, that he was the Co-Chair, he said Chair, but he was the, basically, Co-Chair of U.S. Term Limits for some time, while he was the Governor of Massachusetts.
Philip Blumel: This was the time when term limits were sweeping the nation, and the successful initiatives were imposing term limits on state legislatures, and even on federal legislators, unless that fateful Supreme Court decision knocked them out. So, here’s somebody … here’s a man that was part of the movement since the ’90s, has been active with our organization, U.S. Term Limits, and I don’t really want to get into the political aspects of him versus Trump, I don’t think that’s important for our purposes here. We didn’t need to smoke him out, we know what his position on term limits is, and always has been.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah. It’s obviously really tough to challenge an incumbent, that’s why we do what we do here. We wouldn’t exist if it was easy to run against an incumbent, but sometimes, even if someone can’t win a primary, they can force a discussion about a particular issue. One example that I remember is, when Ron Paul ran for President, repeatedly, he never quite got to the level of a top tier candidate, but by talking about certain issues, he managed to get other candidates to adopt some of those issues. One example would be his stuff about the Federal Reserve. He banged that drum for such a long time, and now every Republican is talking about it.
Nick Tomboulides: My hope, with Weld, would be, he can kind of be the Pied Piper for term limits, within the primary. The President hasn’t talked about it a lot, maybe not because he doesn’t want to, or because he’s so damn busy, and he’s got a million other things to worry about, but if Weld starts asking about term limits, gets people in New Hampshire talking about it, puts it on Trump’s radar, then I don’t see how that could be anything other than a very positive development.
Philip Blumel: I quite agree. Although they’ll be arguing about lots of different things, they won’t be arguing about this issue.
Nick Tomboulides: Exactly right. I don’t care who says it. It’s not about the messenger, it’s about the message, in this case, and we know we have the strongest message in the country right now.
Philip Blumel: That’s right. Now, for keeping track of all the Presidential candidates, and there are an enormous number of them, you might want to go to TermLimits.com, where Nick has created a … I guess it’s a spreadsheet. Well, it’s actually more of an article, but he lists all of the different candidates for President, and their positions, the best that we know them, on the issue of term limits. It’s getting to be a long list, and it’s getting to be rather detailed, and we’ll keep updating it as we get more information.
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah. The cool thing about this list that I’ve compiled … you can find it right at the top of TermLimits.com, we are going to pin it there … is we give you a little synopsis of where all the candidates stand on this, but then, we also have some primary source material.
Nick Tomboulides: So, for example, Ken Quinn, we’ve highlighted his work on the show before, has gone out to these events in New Hampshire, and talked to candidates. Well, fortunately, we have most of that on video. If you go the article, you can get links to those videos, so you can watch it firsthand, and you can make your own judgment, about whether these candidates are serious on term limits, or not, and which one articulates it the best. So, I definitely encourage people to go check out that article.
Philip Blumel: Thank you for listening to No Uncertain Terms again this week. A special thanks to those who answered our call for listener comments at Podcast@TermLimits.com. Our most thorough critique this week, came from John Doe, who asked not to be identified.
Philip Blumel: John Doe does not require goofiness with his term limits news and commentary, does not believe we should claim to be nonpartisan, and hates reverb. You can be sure that after we’re done collecting listener comments, and giving out a valuable prize to one of them randomly, we are going to get the team together, and discuss every comment we’re offered. Thanks John Doe.
Philip Blumel: Not all our listeners agree on everything. Rosa King thinks we talk too much about Democrats, but loves the fun segments, including the Bernie Sanders imitations.
Philip Blumel: Thanks again to James [Copestake 00:21:13] of Gainesville, Florida. I clumsily misidentified him last week, but we went back and fixed the error. Sorry James.
Philip Blumel: That’s it. Please send us your comments at Podcast@TermLimits.com. Be sure to tell us if you’re a subscriber, or if you listen to us at TermLimits.com, or use some other platform. You are part of this revolution, and your weekly Term Limits update should reflect this. We’ll be back next week.
MUSIC CREDITS – Full versions of the music sampled during this podcast may be purchased via iTunes at the following links : “Washington Bullets” by The Clash
The “No Uncertain Terms” podcast is produced by Kenn Decter for U.S. Term Limits
Executive Producer Philip Blumel (President, U.S. Term Limits)
